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**Joe Dragon** · Jun 5, 2015, 08:40 AM

Re: Newbie Needs Help With Old and Neglected Car

Well you're undertaking a big but very satisfying job. You definitely need an inside space to work, along with some good lighting to see what you're doing. Wonder if your wife could empty the garage temporarily, say for a week or two? Or maybe you can rent a storage space short term. Either way, you should start all over again. A positive for you is the car is silver rather than black. After a good wash, clay is the next step. After that, you'll start correcting the paint; this is where you can get lost in the maze of products. You'll need to think about how much time/effort you want to put in against the results you'll get. Working by hand is not an insurmountable handicap, it will just be more difficult compared to using a machine to do the grunt work. After the clay you'll need a compound, then a less aggressive polish, then I'd use a sealer rather than a wax because of the durability it'll provide to your work.

I'd read some of the posts on this forum and others; if some of the guys make more sense to you than others, focus on their advice. Sending a message to them can also be helpful, as I've found most of the good guys are more than willing to help because they've been where you are. Hang in there. Another thing I'd recommend is taking some pics, before and after, in good light so you can smile with pride on your accomplishment.

**Jarhead0754** · Jun 5, 2015, 08:40 AM

Well 1st if u can afford it I highly recommend buying a da polisher such as meguiars mt300. Ur results will b much worth the money. But to start u out if u could post some close up pics if the paint on ur car in the sunlight or with a high powered flash light so we can help u determine what damage if any u had so u can better understand what ur looking for.
Claying is a very easy process that shouldn't frighten u off. A 3 year old can do it. And after this step compounding would b the next assuming u have some swirls in the paint. And if not then polish is after and this is what will give it the shine .
Doing all these steps can make ur old car look new again!

**Taco Cat** · Jun 5, 2015, 10:08 AM

Re: Newbie Needs Help With Old and Neglected Car

Thanks for the response, guys.

Believe me, I wish I could get part of my garage back. Unfortunately my wife is about one step away from having her own hoarding reality television show (perhaps a topic for the Living with a Hoarder Online forum). However, I live in an area where there's a decent amount of cloud/fog cover early in the morning and later in the afternoons. So if direct sunlight is an issue, it's not so much for us Coastal NorCal residents (I live in the wine country, to give an idea about the climate).

A few questions:

1. Can UC be used effectively by hand or should I hold off on that until I stolen.....er, bought a DA?

2. If I do skip the UC, would it be advised to simply polish by hand? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears polishing is more effective by hand than compounding.

3. If I do polish, wish polish? I realize not knowing the condition of my car impacts the ability to answer. But I'm assuming it's got a good amount of swirls and there certainly are light scratches (nothing significant, fortunately).

4. If I do polish, what type of applicator pads should I use? Foam or microfiber?

5. Which wax would be best? I've been using the Carnauba Paste Wax with good results.

6. Should I use a wax cleaner in addition?

I'll see if I can get some photos this weekend. Thanks everyone, the advise is greatly appreciated!!

**Coach** · Jun 5, 2015, 10:22 AM

Re: Newbie Needs Help With Old and Neglected Car

Welcome to MOL Taco.
You sound ambitious, but cautious too. Very wise! Starting out can empty your wallet quickly. But you can still get very nice results without needing to spend big bucks in the first month.
First, having a garage or protected area for your detailing is best but I don't necessarily agree that it's a requirement. I detail my black daily driver without cover and it looks terrific (if you don't mind me tooting my own horn). If $$$ are limited, look to Harbor Freight for your first dual action machine. They have a fairly nice unit for about $70. http://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-57...her-69924.html Perfect for starting out, then upgrade down the line some.

Claying and then compounding will give you a good foundation to work up your finish from. If you try using the Ultimate line of products(compound, polish, wax) you can get very nice results with virtually no risk of damaging the paint via rookie mistakes. Ultimate Compound is very forgiving but can correct your years of neglect. Check out the series of Meguiars "How To" videos too. Lots can be learned there.

Good luck! Pictures in detailing DO say more than a 1000 words. Post 'em and give us updates.

Coach

**Top Gear** · Jun 5, 2015, 11:07 AM

Re: Newbie Needs Help With Old and Neglected Car

Welcome, Taco. I agree with the others on the machine. I do mine out in the open, but working by hand will wear you out very fast. I'd suggest the cheaper DA or a Porter Cable. I got mine for about $150, if I remember right.

Originally posted by Taco Cat View Post

1. Can UC be used effectively by hand or should I hold off on that until I stolen.....er, bought a DA?

2. If I do skip the UC, would it be advised to simply polish by hand? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears polishing is more effective by hand than compounding.

3. If I do polish, wish polish? I realize not knowing the condition of my car impacts the ability to answer. But I'm assuming it's got a good amount of swirls and there certainly are light scratches (nothing significant, fortunately).

4. If I do polish, what type of applicator pads should I use? Foam or microfiber?

5. Which wax would be best? I've been using the Carnauba Paste Wax with good results.

6. Should I use a wax cleaner in addition?

I'll see if I can get some photos this weekend. Thanks everyone, the advise is greatly appreciated!!

1. UC can be used by hand, but for a whole car, it will take weeks. Even spot correcting can be very tricky. Get a machine. I speak from my own not so long ago transformation.

2. Again, polishing will be amazing by machine.

3. I'd start with UC and Ultimate Polish. These are extremely rewarding products and easily found.

4. Personally, I just moved to MF pads and the full DAMF system, so that's what I recommend.

5. Wax is a personal choice. I used Gold Class for a long while, and now Detailer D301, which is in the same ballpark of carnauba-based products.

6. A cleaner wax is best reserved for a single step. If you've compounded and polished, you do not need a cleaner, because you've just cleaned better than ever.

Hope that helps!

**The Guz** · Jun 5, 2015, 12:24 PM

Re: Newbie Needs Help With Old and Neglected Car

Welcome.

You can certainly do things by hand. This is a good thread to read by Mike Phillips. In it he is using Meguiar's products. Instead of swirlx, use the ultimate polish that you already have.

Man versus Machine

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/20257-man-versus-machine.html

Man versus Machine The human hand versus Meguiar's G110! This Lincoln has moderate swirls and also straight-line scratches running from front to back,

Someone posted the Harbor Freight DA. That is a decent machine for the price. All you would need is a better backing plate, preferably a 5" and some pads. Should set you back about 130-$150 for everything. If that fits into your budget then by all means I would pick one up.

If not then do what you can by hand. It will just take you a little longer. My best advice is to break it up into a few days and work section by section.

Originally posted by Taco Cat View Post

A few questions:

1. Can UC be used effectively by hand or should I hold off on that until I stolen.....er, bought a DA?

It sure can. It will clean up the paint very well. It's all up to you if you choose to use it or not. I posted more info under question 2.

2. If I do skip the UC, would it be advised to simply polish by hand? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears polishing is more effective by hand than compounding.

It depends on how many defects are in the paint. As with all paint correction, the test spot is your friend. Start off with a test spot using the least aggressive product. Start with Ultimate Polish or M205 and if you are satisfied with the look then proceed to your choice of wax. If you need more correction then go to UC. If you are satisfied with the look after UC you can either polish or proceed to wax. Polishing is what gives the paint gloss.

Silver hides swirls pretty good so that is one benefit of a light color.

3. If I do polish, wish polish? I realize not knowing the condition of my car impacts the ability to answer. But I'm assuming it's got a good amount of swirls and there certainly are light scratches (nothing significant, fortunately).

Ultimate polish is a good place to start. My preference is M205. Everyone sees that it is in the pro line and gets a little intimated that only pro's can use it. In reality it's pretty user friendly and anyone can use it.

4. If I do polish, what type of applicator pads should I use? Foam or microfiber?

Use foam. Meguiar's foam applicators are in my opinion the best applicators on the market. The Lake Country foam applicators in that link I posted work very well when doing things by hand. I would recommend those if you want a little more correction power.

Here is another good read. I know you have a silver car but this is useful.

Applying products by Hand - Avoiding "cheetah spots" - Car Care Forums: Meguiar's Online

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?56576-Avoiding-quot-cheetah-spots-quot-or-quot-Look-what-this-compound-did-to-my-paint!-quot

If you go with a machine then I would recommend the new thin foam discs.

5. Which wax would be best? I've been using the Carnauba Paste Wax with good results.

That is really up to you. If you are a carnauba guy you can use something like Gold Class or M26. M26 is my personal preference. It has the ability to bend light and give amazing reflections. Carnauba's typically last about 1-3 months.

If you are looking for something more durable a sealant (aka synthetic wax) would be the way to go. They typically last 4-6 months. I would recommend M21 or Ultimate Wax. Ultimate Wax will last a little longer than M21 or NXT. NXT is the consumer version of M21. Either one will look good on silver.

6. Should I use a wax cleaner in addition?

If you are going to use UC, UP then I would not recommend a cleaner wax. It will remove the polishing oils left behind by your choice of polish. It will remove any wax or sealant applied after all your work. If you don't have the time to do a full correction then that is where a cleaner wax comes in. It's an all in one product that will clean, polish and protect. If you choose to go this route consider White Wax. It's a great cleaner wax that has a potent cleaning ability.

**Jarhead0754** · Jun 5, 2015, 12:52 PM

I just want to add that if doing this by machine then ur pad choice would b the foam pads as ur just starting out. And if by hand then foam or mf is fine just stay away from terry cloth pads. But u have excellent info here from some of the top guys who are very knowledgeable.

**Taco Cat** · Jun 8, 2015, 07:34 AM

Re: Newbie Needs Help With Old and Neglected Car

Thanks to everyone for their responses and advice, they are all greatly appreciated.

So you've convinced me to go out and get a DA Polisher, but it won't be for a few more weeks. But a few questions:

1. Is it truly accurate that I cannot damage my paint with a DA Polisher? Keep in mind, I'm mechanically inept and a huge idiot. With a strong emphasis on the latter. I mean, I'm really mechanically inept, but I'm a huge idiot.

2. Perhaps this is just a question of semantics. If using a compound and DA polisher is "paint correction", does that mean it's removing paint? And if so, does that mean it's also removing clear coat?

3. Assuming I'm compounding and polishing, how many pads of each should I need for the entire car (VW Jetta)? Do I need to clean the pads during? How concerned should I be about how clean they are?

4. How many questions can one ask in a single post before officially becoming a pain in the rear?

5. Outside speed, is there any advantage to using the DA Polisher to wax?

**Michael Stoops** · Jun 8, 2015, 08:45 AM

Re: Newbie Needs Help With Old and Neglected Car

First off, welcome to MOL, Taco Cat!

Check out our responses to your latest questions in red below:

Originally posted by Taco Cat View Post

Thanks to everyone for their responses and advice, they are all greatly appreciated.

So you've convinced me to go out and get a DA Polisher, but it won't be for a few more weeks. But a few questions:

1. Is it truly accurate that I cannot damage my paint with a DA Polisher? Keep in mind, I'm mechanically inept and a huge idiot. With a strong emphasis on the latter. I mean, I'm really mechanically inept, but I'm a huge idiot.
It is indeed possible to damage your paint with a DA polisher, but it's also extremely difficult to do so. If you simply think about what you're doing the whole time you're working with the DA and pay attention to what's happening with the paint as you work, you'll be fine. If you ever find yourself wondering if you're maybe getting too aggressive with it, then you probably are. But "too aggressive" usually means running it a full speed, putting really heavy pressure down on it, and then not moving it at all. And even then, it would take a while for any real damage to occur.

2. Perhaps this is just a question of semantics. If using a compound and DA polisher is "paint correction", does that mean it's removing paint? And if so, does that mean it's also removing clear coat?
Yes, you are indeed removing a tiny little bit of paint when performing "paint correction" or perhaps more precisely, "defect removal". You are also working on the top layer of paint, which is in fact the clear coat. Yep, that's all clear coat is - paint without pigment. It's what gives all the gloss to the color beneath it, and it's what protects that same color from UV exposure. So all those little swirls, etchings, fine scratches, etc are all in the clear coat and the only way to remove them is by leveling the surrounding material to the bottom of the defect. And that does mean removing some paint. But to put things in perspective, and maybe to put your mind at ease, if you think of your clear coat as being a ream of paper (typically 500 sheets) and you remove the swirls from that surface, it's kind of like you're taking the top 2 or 3 sheets of paper off that ream. Swirls really do tend to be quite shallow so you don't need to remove a lot of paint to remove them.

Something else to keep in mind: as some paints age they tend to get harder. That means they become more resistant to the polishing/leveling process. And that means you may need to get a bit more aggressive in order to remove the swirls completely. Now, this tends to spook new users as they feel they're getting overly aggressive. But here's the thing: if you are NOT removing the swirls with your process, you aren't being aggressive enough. For example: Ultimate Polish used with a foam polishing disc at a low speed will remove a super tiny bit of paint - definitely not enough to remove swirls in most cases. Even if you repeated the process 10 times. And yet, people get in their heads the idea that "I know I'm removing paint but I've done this 10 times so I must have removed a LOT of paint, and now I'm gun shy". In reality, however, if those swirls are still there, if it appears that you've essentially done zero correction, then you've effectively removed zero paint. Make sense?

3. Assuming I'm compounding and polishing, how many pads of each should I need for the entire car (VW Jetta)? Do I need to clean the pads during? How concerned should I be about how clean they are?
The more aggressive the process, the greater the number of pads you should have on hand. Compounding with a cutting pad is the most aggressive, so you should probably have 3 or 4 cutting pads on hand. Polishing with a polishing pad is less aggressive and usually the second step, if needed, so a couple of polishing pads makes sense. Waxing is very non invasive and is almost always accomplished with a single pad for the entire vehicle. As for keeping them clean, you should be a fanatic about it. A pad brush works great to remove excess dried product from the edges, and excess product and paint residue from the face of the pad. You can not clean your pads too often.
4. How many questions can one ask in a single post before officially becoming a pain in the rear?
You aren't even close!!! This community is about helping people, whether that person is brand new to this hobby or a seasoned pro. And without questions, we have no idea how to help anyone with any concern/issue/problem.

5. Outside speed, is there any advantage to using the DA Polisher to wax?

Applying wax with a DA is very fast, as you mention, but it also makes it very easy to apply a thin and uniform coat to the paint. And that's really what you're aiming for when applying wax. A thin coat dries faster and is easier to wipe off. Chemistry is going to dictate how much wax/sealant will bond to the paint, and it doesn't matter how smart or tricky a person is, they aren't going to fool chemistry. A thick coat provides no more protection than a thin coat, but it will take longer to dry and it can become difficult to wipe off. And you're basically just wiping off all that excess with a towel, and then washing it down the drain when you wash that towel. While we like the idea of people using more of our product, but we'd prefer you use our products properly and get a better user experience from them. And not just flush our products down the drain!

Something else to consider here: Your car is silver, and that color tends to hide a lot of issues. Given that your Jetta is 13 years old and, by your own admission, it's been neglected all that time, that's probably a good thing!! Even though you may not be able to make it look totally brand spanking new again, you can most certainly transform the appearance of the car. In the past 13 years of neglect, a lot of fine dirt has become embedded in the paint, and waxing alone won't fix that. A good compound (after claying, of course) will do wonders to remove all that embedded crud and really bring the brilliance of that silver paint back. You may not fully realize how dulled down it has become until you give a really deep cleaning. That's actually a very easy process as opposed to full swirl removal. Silver paint may make it harder to see the swirls, but it will look dull and flat due to the embedded dirt. Removing that, and attacking the swirls, will dramatically alter the appearance - for the better, of course!

**Top Gear** · Jun 8, 2015, 10:57 AM

Re: Newbie Needs Help With Old and Neglected Car

Originally posted by Taco Cat View Post

1. Is it truly accurate that I cannot damage my paint with a DA Polisher? Keep in mind, I'm mechanically inept and a huge idiot. With a strong emphasis on the latter. I mean, I'm really mechanically inept, but I'm a huge idiot.

Let me interject/sidebar that I or others may seem to comment on MOL as if DA work is totally harmless without being aggressive. Please keep in mind that, although I try to qualify all of my statements, they relate to my situation, or for super mystifying hard paint as found on my black Genesis Coupe. Another car I work on also happens to have very hard paint, too. By comparison, my previous car (and others before that) had such soft paint I could never do a fraction of what I talk about doing to this black Coupe. My previous car's paint responded to the lightest touch, which is why I was so very careful and paranoid about the Coupe, a then new black car. It took at least a couple of years (as the car built up defects), but I finally realized all the careful correction I was doing was ineffective, so I kept stepping up the aggression to finally achieve a real result as seen in so many threads here.

The moral of the story is to be very sure how hard your paint really is, and don't just go by what non-pro people like me on forums might say, or may seem to say. Maybe start by googling the hardness of 2002 Volkswagen paints, maybe visit a VW dealer as well as a local paint shop for opinions, but definitely do tests on your car. You can try a mild polish like UP or a cleaner wax first in a test area. Let that weather/wash away, and then see (by full sunlight, a halogen or LED light) if that had any real impact on the defects (under the wax/polishing oils which can hide them). If that had no effect, you can go one step more aggressive, not several at once. The forum is here to help with any questions you will surely have (because this stuff can be very confusing). I sure have had a lot of questions, and I lurk more than I post, reading threads and working things out on my own.

**ronniejay** · Nov 12, 2015, 07:47 AM

Re: Newbie Needs Help With Old and Neglected Car

If you can arrange the trip to LA, the Thur nite class at Meguiars would be a great start. Hands on and learn a lot.

**CrazyVinny** · Nov 16, 2015, 10:56 AM

Re: Newbie Needs Help With Old and Neglected Car

Best of luck with your project, Taco!

As a fellow un-garaged noobie, I'm not qualified to give you serious advice.

However, I noticed something funny last time I worked on my old focus that I though I'd share:
Wearing a LED headlamp during the night makes every paint defect stand out like beacons. Even tiny ones.

I can walk around my car during the day and it looks pretty nice (for a 2005 'light tundra metallic'-colored wagon).
But as soon as the sun goes down and I put on my headlamp, it turns into a scratched monster in a "Jekill-and-Hide" fashion.

That makes targeting the defects and measuring the correction effect a lot more easier.

Enjoy,

Crazy Vinny

P.S.: I join my voice to the Pros that suggest you pick a test spot. I think that's the most important advice I got for my own project.

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