I'm lost in wax vs sealant debates. What do I do after Ultimate Liquid Wax?

[Top Gear]

Re: I'm lost in wax vs sealant debates. What do I do after Ultimate Liquid Wax?

...carnauba waxes make use of natural carnauba wax for the primary protection ingredient but they can contain other types of waxes as well...what's really important here is not so much which product you choose as a quick detailer/quick wax for routine dust removal between washes, but that you do it at all...If you then later apply a carnauba QD/QW over that synthetic, you may actually detract from some of that hydrophobic effect. Likewise, if you perceive that a carnauba wax gives you a certain look that you're after and you apply a synthetic QD/QW over it, you may lose some of the visual effect that you like. Of course, you will be picking up some added hydrophobic effect, so it's a trade off...

This is another good discussion on MOL I keep coming back to. Indeed, there are soooo many products, just from Meguiar's alone, much less mixing in other companies' merch and claims, so it's very easy to overthink waxes and sealants. Should I seal my wax, or should I wax my sealant?? It's like a philosophical conundrum

For another very related example, I recently discovered that UWWA is truly awesome as a maintenance product, and seems to work essentially as a carnauba-enriched spray sealant. Previously, I overthought all of this because where I am I wasn't able to maintain well just using QD/QW, which created more washing, which created more correcting, which took more effort than all of this is supposed to take (and maintain one's sanity). So, adding one product to my kit allows me to maintain and mildly seal a carnauba finish without detracting from the carnauba "blue black" look of D301 I'm now using.

Changed my life!

[drumdan]

Personally, I stand back, and enjoy the shine! Of course there are other days where I'll end up applying m26, just because I love working with that wax.

[Coach]

Re: I'm lost in wax vs sealant debates. What do I do after Ultimate Liquid Wax?

Michael... outstanding detailed explanation. Well said, thank you!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: I'm lost in wax vs sealant debates. What do I do after Ultimate Liquid Wax?

IDK... to me, sealant is a wax. It is a synthetic wax.

In a nutshell, this is actually very accurate and a great way to look at the two. Since both are designed to do the exact same thing you could also call them paint protectants, but that would only confuse the buying public even more. Heck, they still have trouble with "wax" and "sealant" and it's quite common for someone to ask us which wax they should use after sealing their paint. When we tell them they don't need to, they look at us funny. And then we explain it all over again.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: I'm lost in wax vs sealant debates. What do I do after Ultimate Liquid Wax?

When someone first dives into this hobby it can be very confusing, partly due to all the different products available today and partly due to how different terms are often used in a variety of ways. Let's see if we can summarize a few things for you here:

Carnauba wax vs synthetics: carnauba waxes make use of natural carnauba wax for the primary protection ingredient but they can contain other types of waxes as well. And since naturally occurring carnauba is literally as hard as a rock there must be some sort of solvent ingredient in the product that makes the carnauba spreadable on the paint. There are usually a variety of polymers found in these waxes as well, but don't read too much into that. The term "polymer" is an incredibly broad term and in simplest form means nothing more than a long chain of bonded molecules that are very similar in nature. DNA is, therefore, technically a polymer but obviously nobody's wax has actual DNA in it! Silicones are usually polymers as well, and these are the primary type of polymers found in carnauba waxes as they tend to make spreading and removal of the product much easier. They may or may not add shine or slickness, depending on which silicones are used. Synthetics, on the other hand, are usually just that - pure, man made synthetic products that behave quite differently on the paint surface. The polymers used here are selected for their durability (usually via a strong cross linking bond of the long molecular chains) and as such these pure synthetics (often called "sealants" in the hobby) tend to be much more durable than typical carnauba waxes. It is certainly possible for a product to contain a combination of these two design philosophies, but that's not very common. Our M20 Polymer Sealant, however, is one such product. Further, since both types of product - carnauba and sealant - are designed to do basically the same thing (ie, protect the paint) there is no real need to use both on the same vehicle. Even so, some people like to apply a sealant first for durability, and then they top off with a carnauba for the look they get. Keep in mind, however, that this can be a very subtle appearance change, not everyone will see things the same, and more importantly not everyone likes the same thing. This makes the selection of any wax a very subjective and personal selection. If all you're looking for is durability, then our Ultimate Wax is the right choice since it's our longest lasting, best protecting paint protectant (AKA "wax"). But if you actually prefer the look of a carnauba, then maybe Gold Class or M26 is a better choice for you.

Maintenance of either product: what's really important here is not so much which product you choose as a quick detailer/quick wax for routine dust removal between washes, but that you do it at all. It is perfectly safe and acceptable to use a carnauba formulated QD/QW over a synthetic sealant, or to use a synthetic QD/QW over a carnauba wax - you aren't going to do any real harm or damage. But think about this: if you're using a synthetic sealant like NXT Tech Wax 2.0 or Ultimate Wax, part of the reason you selected that product is likely the hydrophobic properties contained in them. If you then later apply a carnauba QD/QW over that synthetic, you may actually detract from some of that hydrophobic effect. Likewise, if you perceive that a carnauba wax gives you a certain look that you're after and you apply a synthetic QD/QW over it, you may lose some of the visual effect that you like. Of course, you will be picking up some added hydrophobic effect, so it's a trade off. But in all honestly, all of this is over thinking things a bit; you won't strip the existing wax by using a maintenance product that differs in design intent, and unless you've got a very highly trained eye you may not see the difference without doing a true side by side comparison. Bottom line - "find something you like and use it often" as my predecessor in this position likes to say!

Washing: all of our car wash soaps are pH neutral and bio degradable, meaning they won't strip wax and they won't kill your lawn. Gold Class has some ingredients that will help to maintain the gloss level of a nicely prepped and waxed vehicle, while Ultimate Wash & Wax contains some dispersed wax that will leave a bit of added gloss enhancing behind. Again, if you use UWW over any wax, it's not going to "fight" with whatever was there before the wash.



Of all the things we as enthusiasts tend to stress over, the above really should be the least of our concerns. Far more important is exactly how you maintain the finish overall - are you always using clean, high quality microfiber towels and an appropriate number of them for the task at hand? It's rare that you can do a proper QD wipe down of a dusty car with a single towel, and a rinseless or waterless wash usually requires several towels to safely clean the car. Personally, I've used as many as 9 on a two seat convertible with a canvas top - not a lot of paint on a car like that, but if I'm doing a waterless wash on a truly dirty car, I'm not taking any chances. If you're bucket washing, are you using quality wash mitts and drying towels, along with the two bucket method and Grit Guards? Are you washing your wash mitts and drying towels after each use? Are you scrubbing the paint to clean it (if so, STOP!!!)? If you're doing all of the above correctly and carefully, you'll find that your paint will look great for a very long time following a full detail session, perhaps as long as a few years. Yes, years. As an example, my daily driver got a full buff out 6 months ago during the Christmas break, and that was the first time I'd done so in 5 years - it simply didn't need it because I'm beyond picky in my maintenance routine. That also means if I don't have a chance to wipe the car down for a few days, I'll hold off until I have time to either do a proper waterless wash or break out the hose and bucket. And, yes, that means at times the car is actually {gulp} dirty for a few days. Hey, it happens!

[C8N]

Re: I'm lost in wax vs sealant debates. What do I do after Ultimate Liquid Wax?

IDK... to me, sealant is a wax. It is a synthetic wax.

[ErnestHouse]

Re: I'm lost in wax vs sealant debates. What do I do after Ultimate Liquid Wax?

Ahhhh I get it. Thanks everyone. "Wax over a sealant is ok" unlocks it for me.

[Coach]

Re: I'm lost in wax vs sealant debates. What do I do after Ultimate Liquid Wax?

Hi Earnest,
This stuff can make you dizzy if you let it. I don't pretend to be an expert but I have used Ultimate Polish followed by Ultimate Liquid or Paste Wax on all five of my families members vehicles with great results. To respond to your question... you don't need to do ANYTHING else after you apply Ultimate Wax. Just maintain by washing as needed and use Spray Detailer and Spray Wax. You can apply these every week if you want.

As you go forward, you can develop you own routine. (I maintain as needed polish spring and fall and apply Ultimate Wax approximately monthly.)
Hope this helps.
Coach

[davey g-force]

Re: I'm lost in wax vs sealant debates. What do I do after Ultimate Liquid Wax?

I know all Meguiar's products are PH neutral blah blah blah marketing speak but am I correct in concluding the lifespan of my ULW finish will be greatly diminished by GC?

Not at all. GC or any other Meguiars car wash will not diminish a wax / sealant.

UWW is designed to leave a small amount of wax behing after washing, but you get a more durable result by using UQW after washing.

[billddrummer]

Re: I'm lost in wax vs sealant debates. What do I do after Ultimate Liquid Wax?

The difference between a wax and a sealant is that a wax tends to be based on carnauba whilst a sealant tends to be based on synthetic polymers or acrylic. That's it.

A wax could even be synthetic and a sealant could contain some carnauba so it's not like the terms aren't interchangeable. Mostly it has to do with marketing whereas the average consumer seeks to by a wax for his car and if you present it as a sealant, he might not buy it because he might not get the term.

The he way it interpret it is that sealants are usually synthetic which means they may have a longer durability than a wax. However, if a wax is partially or entirely synthetic then it can also be durable.

My understanding of it is that a sealant has a formulation which is designed to persist longer without reapplication than a wax.

As you point out, sealants typically are polymer based, but based on what I've read, the formula for a polymer based wax is different than the formula for a polymer based sealant.

The sealant has a different molecular structure (no I didn't major in chemistry) which is less resistant, or even nearly impervious, to environmental degradation.

Wax, as described many times and in many places on this forum, is a sacrificial barrier which requires periodic reapplication.

Interesting debate.

[MTLian]

Re: I'm lost in wax vs sealant debates. What do I do after Ultimate Liquid Wax?

The difference between a wax and a sealant is that a wax tends to be based on carnauba whilst a sealant tends to be based on synthetic polymers or acrylic. That's it.

A wax could even be synthetic and a sealant could contain some carnauba so it's not like the terms aren't interchangeable. Mostly it has to do with marketing whereas the average consumer seeks to by a wax for his car and if you present it as a sealant, he might not buy it because he might not get the term.

The he way it interpret it is that sealants are usually synthetic which means they may have a longer durability than a wax. However, if a wax is partially or entirely synthetic then it can also be durable.

[Stephan]

Re: I'm lost in wax vs sealant debates. What do I do after Ultimate Liquid Wax?

If you put any wax over a sealant,

Disclaimer: "ANY WAX" is too broad a statement. This was not meant to include cleaner waxes with abrasives.

[The Guz]

Re: I'm lost in wax vs sealant debates. What do I do after Ultimate Liquid Wax?

^^^ I agree. Don't over think it. Any car wash soap is good and any Meguiar's soap will not diminish the lifespan of whichever wax you are using. UW&W leaves a layer of wax behind it to give you the just waxed look. You can do the same thing with a quick detailer or quick wax. The wax in UW&W will not last as long.

[Stephan]

Re: I'm lost in wax vs sealant debates. What do I do after Ultimate Liquid Wax?

I know all Meguiar's products are PH neutral blah blah blah marketing speak but am I correct in concluding the lifespan of my ULW finish will be greatly diminished by GC?

It's more of a compatibility of polymers thingy than a pH thingy. If you put any wax over a sealant, it will provide a temporary, sacrificial barrier to the sealant. This is a good thing. The action of washing and wiping your car clean and dry will diminish a sealant or wax in and of itself.

Don't over-analyze this. Sit down with a beer or a Johnny Walker Black and admire your shiny car.

[ErnestHouse]

Re: I'm lost in wax vs sealant debates. What do I do after Ultimate Liquid Wax?

This use of "Wax" in products that are sealants is painful and I bought the wrong wash because of it. According to the Meguiars "Know How", I got faked out in the store and bought the wrong car wash. Because I was applying ULW (a sealant), I did not buy the Ultimate Wash and Wax because it had Carnuba (a wax). In searching for how long I can expect ULW to last, I discovered Meguiars .au "Know How" FAQ and it says to use UW&W with ULW. Knowing ULW was really a sealant, I bought GC instead. ARGGGGGGG.

http://www.meguiars.com.au/know-how/#q30

I know all Meguiar's products are PH neutral blah blah blah marketing speak but am I correct in concluding the lifespan of my ULW finish will be greatly diminished by GC?