I keep getting swirls with 2 bucket method

[cheframsey]

Hi Everyone,

I just bought a 2011 Jet Black BMW 328i last month from the dealer. When I brought it home the paint was flawless, there were no swirl or scratch marks anywhere on the paint. Since then, I have washed it about 6 times using the 2 bucket method and after every wash it seems like more and more swirls/deep scratches are showing on the paint, especially near the top of my trunk. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Here is my process:

1. Rinse car with water.
2. Rinse car with wolfgang foam gun (Meguiars gold class soap)
3. Fill one bucket with goldclass soap, one with rinsing water. Grit guards are being used.
4. Dip Meguiars microfiber in soap bucket. Wipe one panel. Dip microfiber mit in Rinse bucket.
5. Repeat
6. Dry car with leaf blower

From reading other posts on the board it seems like I'm doing everything right. Do you guys have any suggestions?

[Eldorado2k]

Is the car waxed? If so, what kind of wax did you use?
Also, do you see the grit at the bottom of your rinse bucket after the wash/is your soap bucket free of grit and still fairly clean after the wash?
Do you scrub soft or aggresive during the wash?
I can't think of anything else._.

[The Guz]

Re: I keep getting swirls with 2 bucket method

It could be that the paint is soft. It could also be the possibility of some small contaminant on the wash mit that caused it. Another possibility is what ever wax you are using filled in the swirls and it's being removed. Do you wash your wash mits after each use? Do you start from top to bottom?

Just some things I can think of.

[cheframsey]

Re: I keep getting swirls with 2 bucket method

I wash the mit after every use, same with the microfibers. There is usually never any grit at the bottom after the wash. Its pretty clean.

I still haven't waxed or detailed the car after the dealer did it. Could that be another reason?

Thanks.

[C8N]

Re: I keep getting swirls with 2 bucket method

From my understanding, BMW's Jet Black is generally known to be soft.
When you rinse your mitt, you should grind it against the grit guard to agitate it to release the dirt. Perhaps your mitt is not releasing the dirt as well as it should.

Is the leaf blower the only thing you use to dry?
When towel drying, more often than not, it is usually during the drying process where scratches occur.

[tiSS'er]

Re: I keep getting swirls with 2 bucket method

Do you perform any final wipe down after you dry with the leaf blower? I have had 2 black cars, 1 Acura TSX and now a Lexus IS350. In both cases, using the most cautious wash method possible, I would get very light swirling. I think it is a combination of the soft paints on today's cars, and the fact that black will show even the slightest marring. My wife's Element which is a dark silver color show NOTHING under the sun, only under really intense direct light. I can dry wipe her car (I've done it) and you just can't see it.

I have been slowly getting better at washing my black car though. I perfectly polished out one panel to keep a close eye on what might be causing the marring. I have recently switched to rinseless washing and it has helped considerably. I attribute this to the fact that I am working with soft water, on a cool surface, paying very close attention to the wash media. Before every wipe, I use only clean media (check out the method that Mike Stoops teaches, works amazing). I never reintroduce a dirty towel into the wash solution. Once a towel is dirty, it goes in the dirty towel to be washed. I use about 10 MF towels per wash, 1 per panel. I only use super high quality, super soft microfiber towels which has helped too. Using rinseless washing has also allowed me to slow down and pay attention to details since I am only working on one panel at a time.

However, not all was great with my rinseless technique. I found that my drying technique was contributing to the problem. I only use high quality waffle weave MF towels, and I would dry the car by priming the towel with rinseless solution, and then wiping down the surface. The WW towels are not nearly as soft as the 600gram MF detailing towels I have, and seemed to be marring my fragile paint. Now, I damp the WW towel and blot dry the panel, followed by a final wipe with a 600gram MF which has also been lightly primed with either the rinseless wash solution or D156 spray wax. I feel much more comfortable doing a final wipe with the 600gram towel than the waffle weave, and so far it has proven to help.

Just for reference, I live in Phoenix, where we have very hard water, and I need to do traditional washes in the summer when it is well over 100 degrees out, often above 110 degrees. When I would do traditional washes, I would have to move very quickly, as most panels would be dry in less than 1 minute after a wash and rinse, so using care was hardly a consideration. Once I pulled the car in the garage, the water spots were horrible and I had to use a decent amount of pressure, even with a drying aid, to remove them. Not to mention, the minerals in the hard water spots are being captured my the drying towel, and now are acting as a super fine grit which is being wiped on the car.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure there is anyway to keep a black car looking perfect, I have accepted that black cars require significantly more work than other colors. Everything you are doing is by the book.

[tiSS'er]

Re: I keep getting swirls with 2 bucket method

.

Is the leaf blower the only thing you use to dry?
When towel drying, more often than not, it is usually during the drying process where scratches occur.

You beat me to it....I completely agree.

[gclark26]

Re: I keep getting swirls with 2 bucket method

This will sound like I am being a smarta$$, but the best way I know of to not introduce swirls is to not wash your car.

For example. i have a black corvette and a dark blue Jeep. I dust them with a California duster and use RFEW in a spray bottle. I use a plush towel to wipe up RFEW and a MF towel to mop up.
The key is to not allow the car to get excessively dirty. I havent washed with a hose and bucket for months.
I also follow up with D156 or any other Meguiars wax of your choice.

[davey g-force]

Re: I keep getting swirls with 2 bucket method

I haven't bucket washed my garage queen for over a year!

OP - it sounds like you're doing all the right things. My thought is that it is highly unusual for a car to come from a dealer looking "flawless" unless they use a glaze or some type of filling product to hide the swirls / scratches. These products wear off over time and with washing & rain.

So it could well be that every time you wash the car, more and more of the glaze is wearing off, revealing more and more of the swirls that were originally there in the first place.

[Top Gear]

Re: I keep getting swirls with 2 bucket method

It's not your fault, cheframsey, and even with my super-hard paint, fine swirls are inevitable.

Dealers also put various treatments on new cars which hide swirls/spiderwebs. You're seeing that treatment wear off. The issue is "touching" the paint at all, not necessarily how you are touching it, because it sounds like you're doing all the right things. What's happening is that many swirls were already there before you got the car, and you are putting additional very, very fine scratches in the outer layers of the clear and the polish and wax layers by washing it at all, or otherwise touching it, no matter how careful and meticulous you are. It will happen with any car, but black makes it easier to see.

What you can do is use Quik Detailer and Quik Wax to hide most of these temporarily, and then do DA corrections to remove most of them periodically. How perfect that is depends on many factors, but since I'm dealing with a daily driver which is not garaged in my case, I've learned to be less picky about spiderwebs - I reach for Quik products and let it go

[tiSS'er]

Re: I keep getting swirls with 2 bucket method

It's not your fault, cheframsey, and even with my super-hard paint, fine swirls are inevitable.

Dealers also put various treatments on new cars which hide swirls/spiderwebs. You're seeing that treatment wear off. The issue is "touching" the paint at all, not necessarily how you are touching it, because it sounds like you're doing all the right things. What's happening is that many swirls were already there before you got the car, and you are putting additional very, very fine scratches in the outer layers of the clear and the polish and wax layers by washing it at all, or otherwise touching it, no matter how careful and meticulous you are. It will happen with any car, but black makes it easier to see.

What you can do is use Quik Detailer and Quik Wax to hide most of these temporarily, and then do DA corrections to remove most of them periodically. How perfect that is depends on many factors, but since I'm dealing with a daily driver which is not garaged in my case, I've learned to be less picky about spiderwebs - I reach for Quik products and let it go

I've learned with a black car, perfection is rather short lived. Much like you I have to let it go, and not focus on the car from 6" away, but rather enjoy the view 2' away.

[BadBenz94]

Re: I keep getting swirls with 2 bucket method

I haven't bucket washed my garage queen for over a year!

OP - it sounds like you're doing all the right things. My thought is that it is highly unusual for a car to come from a dealer looking "flawless" unless they use a glaze or some type of filling product to hide the swirls / scratches. These products wear off over time and with washing & rain.

So it could well be that every time you wash the car, more and more of the glaze is wearing off, revealing more and more of the swirls that were originally there in the first place.

I agree with that probably being more in line with what is really happening.

I've learned with a black car, perfection is rather short lived. Much like you I have to let it go, and not focus on the car from 6" away, but rather enjoy the view 2' away.

Same here, although I just spent many an hour claying, cutting, etc. I know that slowly it will go away. Although I don't own a black car, my car is very dark green non metallic and acts the same as a black car.

I don't know how you guys don't wash your car. I guess I have to be taught new tricks as I wash my car, 2-3 times a week, in a garage, but maybe I can learn from you guys and keep my paint looking nicer longer.

Chris

[tiSS'er]

Re: I keep getting swirls with 2 bucket method

I agree with that probably being more in line with what is really happening.



Same here, although I just spent many an hour claying, cutting, etc. I know that slowly it will go away. Although I don't own a black car, my car is very dark green non metallic and acts the same as a black car.

I don't know how you guys don't wash your car. I guess I have to be taught new tricks as I wash my car, 2-3 times a week, in a garage, but maybe I can learn from you guys and keep my paint looking nicer longer.

Chris

Now that I have become very good friends with rinseless washing, I can wash my car several times per week which I think helps. Since my car only gets dusty, rinseless with a pre-soak is a very safe way to keep the car clean.

[Meticulous-Detail]

Re: I keep getting swirls with 2 bucket method

Sounds like you washed off the heavy glaze from the dealership, but BMW Jet black is the worst! It will swirl up if you look at it wrong. You are going to need to polish it to remove the swirls and then protect it. I would go with a coating like Opti-Coat for serious protection and maintain with your current wash routine.

Another alternative is to glaze (Chemical Guys EZ creme or glossworkz are great) and seal it every so often, although this goes against what we preach it is an alternative to trying to maintain perfect paint on a daily driver.

[BadBenz94]

Re: I keep getting swirls with 2 bucket method

Now that I have become very good friends with rinseless washing, I can wash my car several times per week which I think helps. Since my car only gets dusty, rinseless with a pre-soak is a very safe way to keep the car clean.

What is the procedure? As usually my car gets most its dirt from road grime and dust. And now that summer is here, bugs will come into play. However I will always need water to wash away the salt come winter time...

Chris