Need advise on work flow for tired, single stage paint

[OriginalARod]

Hi folks,

I have a 25 year old car, single stage paint that has a respray on the front clip. I have Megs DA and appropriate pads for buff, polish, & wax. My approach is:

1. clay
2. M105
3. #7 polish
4. #21 paint sealant
5. probably GC wax

I am actually about to complete step 3. The paint, especially on the roof and on the doors took a several passes even at highest speed with 105 to get a decent finish. Still not nearly as nice as on the front clip where there is fresher paint. But I was scared to work it too much more since I actually worked a few spots to where you can see the color of the primer, i.e. slight color change. Paint is white, primer beneath is a grey. So I left the paint on the roof with a decent luster, but I figured I could bring it up sufficiently with #7, and it did do a decent job.

Now, I would like to seal the paint as best I can so that it does not loose what little luster and depth it has. I have never used #21, but I figured since it's called "paint sealant" it would be the best product to protect what is there.

It seems some people use #21 as the final wax, but I wanted to put something else on top of that. Perhaps GC. I am thinking a "several coats" approach is a must.

Is there anything else you would suggest? Did I make too big a jump going from 105 to #7?

Thanks for any advise.

[Murr1525]

Re: Need advise on work flow for tired, single stage paint

- If you want the most durability, you would want the Ult. Wax. More than 2 coats really wont make a difference. But after future washes, you can use a spray wax like Ult. Quick Wax or Gold Class Wax to dry with / follow up, to help keep up the protection.

- It is hard to say how big the jump was. If it came out looking good, then it must have been ok. You may like to look for something like #80, or Ult. Polish in the future, so you have a milder cleaning product with lots of oils in it.

[Detailing by M]

Well if its only 25 year old paint then it shouldn't be SS. Is this a repaint or OEM paint?

[BillyJack]

Re: Need advise on work flow for tired, single stage paint

Well if its only 25 year old paint then it shouldn't be SS. Is this a repaint or OEM paint?

Not necessarily true. I can only speak for GM, but we started BC/CC for the 1985 model year in the "C" & "N"-body models and didn't have all the cars and trucks switched over until the 90's.

For the original poster, you may want to read this article for some tips on using M07. http://www.autotraderclassics.com/ca...sationId=21363
You've already completed the heavy compounding, but force-feeding a bunch of M07 into the finish will likely help with your subsequent steps. Another alternative, as Murr has stated, is final polishing with an oil-rich product. I prefer M80, as it's abrasive enough to eliminate the residual hazing from most compounds, while still feeding the paint with its oil content.

Bill

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Need advise on work flow for tired, single stage paint

25 year old paint that is starting to show primer in spots is paint that should no longer be worked with anything aggressive at all. If you're starting to see even the hint of primer under the white paint, you're done. Stop. M07 is fine, and waxes and sealants are great, but any compounding, paint cleaning, etc is pretty much over at this point. You just don't have enough paint left to try and "correct" anything.

Incidentally, being that is single stage paint and white, you're most likely dealing with incredibly hard paint. While most single stage lacquers and enamels tend to be softer than modern clear coats, white is really the exception to the rule. Titanium dioxide is the pigment used, and that alone makes the paint extremely hard.

[OriginalARod]

Re: Need advise on work flow for tired, single stage paint

This is a 1988 BMW 635. I am assuming it is a single stage only because I see no signs of a clear coat. I do not know if it truly is original paint, but it looks like it, and looks consistent in the door jambs, trunk area, etc.

Yes, the paint is on it's last leg. But it also has a bunch of door dings and I don't know what bother me more, the dings or super thin paint that is left in a few spots. It's just time for a new paint job, that's all. I will leave that to the new owner as I'm about to put it up for sale. I will post a few pics so that you can see the finished product, err, defects. It's still got some nice lines though. Still a good looking car.

THanks for the advise guys, I much appreciate it.

[Murr1525]

Re: Need advise on work flow for tired, single stage paint

Well, you pads should come up with some white color on them if it is single stage...

[OriginalARod]

Re: Need advise on work flow for tired, single stage paint

Well, you pads should come up with some white color on them if it is single stage...

They do. And not only that, but when I clayed, the lubricant and clay were coming up white. Just saying I don't know if it's really the original paint or not, but it looks like it is.

[hacker-pschorr]

Re: Need advise on work flow for tired, single stage paint

Well if its only 25 year old paint then it shouldn't be SS. Is this a repaint or OEM paint?

Porsche and Audi were using single stage into the 90's with some colors.

My friends Guards Red 1997 993 is single stage and I can guarantee you it's original.

[CCC4me]

Re: Need advise on work flow for tired, single stage paint

Mazda Miatas, Toyotas, german brands and some others had SS well later than 25 years ago

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Need advise on work flow for tired, single stage paint

While single stage paints were introduced into main stream production in the late '70s in Germany, by the mid '80s it was very widespread worldwide. Reds, whites and blacks were the last colors to fully transition to clear so it's very common to see cars in those colors having single stage even into the early 2000's. Infiniti makes a single stage black today, but it's not like the old school lacquers and enamels of a few decades ago; it's a fully catalyzed and very modern paint system, but it's still single stage.

[BillE]

Re: Need advise on work flow for tired, single stage paint

While single stage paints were introduced into main stream production in the late '70s in Germany, by the mid '80s it was very widespread worldwide. Reds, whites and blacks were the last colors to fully transition to clear so it's very common to see cars in those colors having single stage even into the early 2000's. Infiniti makes a single stage black today, but it's not like the old school lacquers and enamels of a few decades ago; it's a fully catalyzed and very modern paint system, but it's still single stage.

Mike,

Maybe I'm dumb as a rock and missed something, but do mean 2 stage paint?

Bill

[C8N]

Re: Need advise on work flow for tired, single stage paint

For neglected single stage paints, I have read that good results can be achieved by letting #7 sit on the paint overnight.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/66800-4-steps-restore-single-paint-paint-1972-mercedes-benz-280-se.html

[jfelbab]

Re: Need advise on work flow for tired, single stage paint

My 91 MR2 was single stage. I struggled with the fading for a couple years. At the time I would use M80 and #7 followed with #20 almost monthly. The paint was EOL. I finally had a repaint done on my MR2 a few years back.

Today if faced with that same issue, I'd likely try a coating. At east one of these coating manufacturers states it has the same UV protectors as OEM clear-coat. It may be possible to extend the life further with a coating product.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Need advise on work flow for tired, single stage paint

Mike,

Maybe I'm dumb as a rock and missed something, but do mean 2 stage paint?

Bill

I've worked too many hours over too many days straight........yes, I did indeed mean base coat/clear coat systems were introduced around that time. Thanks for keeping me honest!!!

Now, I'm off for a double (maybe a triple?) shot of espresso!!!