First experience with a random oribtal

[waxyboard]

I bought some McGuiars pads and a random orbital. Since this is on a brand new 2013 black accord, I did not want to go overboard. I have most of the mcguiars products, but the one I decided to start with is the ultimate polish.

My new car was delivered with "dealer installed scratches" (I like that saying, I never realized how few people know how to take care of a car's paint even dealers).

I used the DA with ultimate polish and the yellow pad. I only went to a speed of 3, I was afraid to do any more first time around. Then I used the black pad. It removed a weird scuff mark that I couldn't get off with clay or washing, and some paper towel scratches I put in when I first got it (before I learned anything).

There are still a number of scratches on the hood, like fine straight line scratches that my fingernail does not catch on, etc.

Using ultimate polish on a speed of 3, I can't be removing much of the clearcoat, right? So it is safe to go over it again if I were determined to try to remove the scratches that are left?

Like maybe try swirlx with the yellow pad (speed 4-5), and then finish it off with ultimate polish and a black pad?

[Murr1525]

Re: First experience with a random oribtal

You can also use the Ult. Polish at the 5 or so speed, and perhaps a little more pressure if you wrent before, so it is working the product in a bit more.

[s word]

Re: First experience with a random oribtal

where in CA are you...I'd be willing to help out.

But like Murr said pressure is key. Paint correction is very mechanical, if you are not putting enough pressure on the pads you will get limited correction. Too much pressure and you get less correction and possibly marring or other damage.

[Murr1525]

Re: First experience with a random oribtal

It really isnt 'less correction' with too much pressure... The pad/product are doing too much work, and causing other issues, so you end up without good results.

[goldenlight]

My first buffer was a random orbital. Once i figured out waxing and correcting paint, i invested in a dual action polisher. My car looks better then when i picked it up from dealership

[Detailing by M]

Re: First experience with a random oribtal

You should have bought Meguiar's pads.
I think you got counterfeit stuff.

[waxyboard]

Re: First experience with a random oribtal

I would tend to use less pressure than more. I did the top of the trunk. I used scratchx with slight pressure, but mostly keeping the pad spinning a couple times per second, not too fast, not totally stopped, at about a 4 speed, and then I went over it with a black pad and ultimate polish at 4 also. The tiny scratches were noticably lighter. They weren't gone, but it really was good enough for me, so I applied mcguiars wax on it to seal it.

This was a showroom car, and jeez I swear they washed it probably once and yes it's black and it shows everything, but they clearly didn't know what the hell they were doing. I just did a little research online, and I'm not introducing any new scratches when I clean it, just making sure I use a microfiber cloth and claying the area. These chumps get away with selling a new car with scratches in the thing because the paint is brand new so one or two crappy washes isn't gonna do noticible damage unless you go over it with a light or look at it close in sunlight. SOBs.

[waxyboard]

Re: First experience with a random oribtal

Oh, so my question was, if I am apply too little pressure, then am I basically just polishing and not taking off clearcoat and not really doing anything? Ever since I read about how the polish/scratch products need to be worked so they break down, I make sure I do that. I don't know if ultimate polish is like scratchx, but I assume it is and work it in until it is clear.

[davey g-force]

Re: First experience with a random oribtal

My opinion is you should just save yourself the time and effort and step it up to at least ScratchX (maybe even UC) for swirl / scratch removal.

UP isn't designed to do any serious correction.

[Murr1525]

Re: First experience with a random oribtal

Oh, so my question was, if I am apply too little pressure, then am I basically just polishing and not taking off clearcoat and not really doing anything? Ever since I read about how the polish/scratch products need to be worked so they break down, I make sure I do that. I don't know if ultimate polish is like scratchx, but I assume it is and work it in until it is clear.

Yeah, swirls/scratches/water spots are low points in the paint, so you have to lower the surrounding paint to match it.

Are you refering to the original ScratchX or ScratchX 2.0?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: First experience with a random oribtal

Oh, so my question was, if I am apply too little pressure, then am I basically just polishing and not taking off clearcoat and not really doing anything? Ever since I read about how the polish/scratch products need to be worked so they break down, I make sure I do that. I don't know if ultimate polish is like scratchx, but I assume it is and work it in until it is clear.

Ultimate Polish is really a finishing polish with a very small level of abrasive to further refine the finish following proper defect removal. By using a yellow polishing pad you are gaining a bit of cut, but at speed 3 with just light pressure you're basically taking the cut from almost nothing to just a bit more than nothing. While we applaud you for not just reaching for M105, a cutting pad and running the tool at max speed (you would be amazed how many new DA users go that route!) we really think you've gone too far the other way to handle any serious defect removal. Remember, too, that the polishing oils in Ultimate Polish can do a decent job of hiding defects if you don't actually remove them first. There isn't really anything wrong with that, but if your goal is to actually remove the defects you should step up to something more aggressive first, then refine the finish with UP prior to waxing.

My opinion is you should just save yourself the time and effort and step it up to at least ScratchX (maybe even UC) for swirl / scratch removal.

UP isn't designed to do any serious correction.

And we completely agree. In fact, we would not hesitate to step up to Ultimate Compound on that yellow polishing pad, and use speed 5 on the DA with moderate pressure. Don't be overly concerned with anecdotal comments about Honda paint - things like it's crazy soft, or it's super thin. The amount of paint you'll take off with UC/yellow pad/speed 5/moderate pressure is virtually nil. In the image below the left side obviously has horrible swirl marks, accumulated over many years of improper washing. The right side is after we corrected with Ultimate Compound, yellow pad, speed 5 and fairly heavy pressure - twice. We took paint thickness readings before and after in several areas tightly clustered in the test spot. There was no difference in readings, which tells us that the process really does more to round off the sharp edges of the swirl marks than take off any sort of "layer" of paint.



From all of your descriptions here, it sounds like you've just been taking a very mild approach and not really correcting all of the defects. Again, that's a smart way to start but it's also a potential for frustration. You know the car can look better, and you want it to, it's just that you're a bit cautious about getting overly aggressive. But there's a difference between being overly aggressive and getting aggressive enough to accomplish your goals.

[ffboy]

Re: First experience with a random oribtal

Nope, it's not simply working the product in more. It's also about proper technique (trial and error factor), proper pad and product combinations. If one wants to correct paint and uses the wrong aggressiveness (eg. too mild), working the product in more won't be enough. You will have to step up in aggressiveness to really make any significant difference.

DA Polishers are quite user friendly. May not have the ultimate power of a High speed buffer, but it is safer and faster and will give superior results. Ultimate Compound gives nice results when used proerly. And quite satisfying as well to see the swirls gone.

[waxyboard]

Re: First experience with a random oribtal

Yeah, using ultimate polish does lighten the scratches only somewhat, and that is on 5 speed on my random oribtial, but it lightened them up enough, it didn't make them dissapear. I was fine with the small improvement and also the nice polish, and then applied the wax, and it looks good. I think I will wait till there are more noticable scratches in some areas of the car till I get aggressive on it.

Question: How fast shuold the pad be rotating? When doing the sides of the car, it is hard to keep consistent pressure, so the pad varies from spinning rapidly to not at all if I put too much pressure. What I really want to know is if it is SAFE if the pad is rotating very rapdily on the surface? Or is that when I need to apply pressure to avoid removing too much paint? The pad has to rotate to get effective scratch removal right? I would like to just keep the pressure light to medium and let the pad rotate as fast as it can. But don't know if that is right.

thanks

[Murr1525]

Re: First experience with a random oribtal

Esp for a daily driver, removing a swirl everytime you see one can get to be a bit much. Many people will do a once a year stronger cleaning sort of thing.

It is safe for the pad to spin rapidly, but with no friction against the surface, it really isnt going to remove as much paint.

The thing with these newer generation of products is you can kind of work out what works for you. You may find that applying UC in a mild manner (not much pressure) works better for you than applying SwirlX with a lot of pressure. Or SwirlX with some medium pressure gives you the results you like, with the effort you are comfortable with.

[waxyboard]

Re: First experience with a random oribtal

Thanks, glad to get the reassurance on that. Yeah, brand new car, it was showroom car, and there are several scratches. It looks like they did 1 or 2 washes with a paper towel or something coarse. Ridic. Not something you notice at first, until you start learning about taking care of your paint.