H110v2 and Ultimate Compound leaving tiny chips in finish. Micro-marring? Ticks?

[Markus Kleis]

Re: H110v2 and Ultimate Compound leaving tiny chips in finish. Micro-marring? Ticks?

It looks like that image of the white GTI showing the dents is of the very front, lower lip of the hood. If so, it would make sense that they would be the worst there.

Can you take macro shots of the roof? I'm curious to see what that paint looks like for reference sake.

[J4o2el7]

Re: H110v2 and Ultimate Compound leaving tiny chips in finish. Micro-marring? Ticks?

The up close photo looks almost like a re-painted surface? IMHO

[Michael Stoops]

Re: H110v2 and Ultimate Compound leaving tiny chips in finish. Micro-marring? Ticks?

We see these types of small pits all the time on cars that come into our garage for Saturday Classes, TNOG sessions, etc. They are almost impossible to see on metallic paint but if you know what you're looking for you can sometimes still find them. I'm just now starting to see a few on the hood of my daily driver, but they aren't caused by any product I've ever put on my car (and for the record, since I play with a bunch of competitors products all the time, I've had any number of different compounds, polishes, waxes, sealants, washes, detailers, yadda yadda yadda on my car).

On the cars that we've seen these on, they are almost never visible until you've buffed them out because all the other issues are hiding them. While these small pits tend to look sort of like solvent pop, they aren't. Solvent pop is the likely culprit behind the issues in the red paint shown in that first image, but you can see solvent pop on a dirty car, let alone one that just hasn't been buffed out. It is also incredibly common to see people describe the condition of their car as "pretty good" until they start buffing it out, and then they start to notice things they never would have before as they now become super critical of the surface when they see the real potential.

The main reason your searches on forums for this type of issue being created by buffing have turned up nothing is because this was not caused by buffing. As you and Mark have already discussed, the physical nature of the process simply can not create small pits in the paint like this. If anything were trapped in the pad it would create pigtails in the paint, which can be very difficult to remove as they tend to be fairly deep, but they directly mimic the movement of the pad. As the name "pigtail" implies, these defects are in an extended curly cue pattern that resembles the tail of a pig, sort of corkscrewing across the surface of the paint. Tick marks, on the other hand, also follow the movement of the pad as the buffer oscillates it over the paint, but they tend to be very short "hook" shaped marks that are very light and very closely spaced. It is that lightness and close spacing that makes the paint look hazing or lacking depth of color - black can look almost grayish. These are both very common defects, but they directly mimic the motion of the pad. So these did not come from a dirty or contaminated pad, no way.

We suspect that, even though you may be seeing these marks all over the car, they are most prevelant on the hood and front of the vehicle. This would be consistent with impact from fine particulate material (sand, dirt kicked up from the cars in front of you on the road, etc) that we see all the time. Again, these are so small as to often be hidden prior to working on the paint. If you have an area of the car that has not been buffed yet but all areas around it have been, and are now exhibiting these defects, we'd be curious to see what happens if you give the unbuffed areas a good wipe down with isopropyl alcohol to remove anything that might be concealing any defects.

Why you're suddenly seeing these same marks on your guitar is really puzzling, though. How did you apply and remove product on the guitar?

[On3Wheels]

Re: H110v2 and Ultimate Compound leaving tiny chips in finish. Micro-marring? Ticks?

Here are a few pictures as promised. Let me just tell you, white is a total pain to photograph, let alone marks in the paint this small. As I said in my original post, these marks are no where else on the vehicle except where I used the Ultimate Polish. This area is roughly a 24x24" square of the hood, taped off with painter's tape. As soon as you go past the tape, there are no marks anywhere else in the paint for the exception of swirls and a few RIDS.

The first two were taken with a macro lens, so you can see the shape of these marks:




The next one is shot further away. You can see the marks at the end of the piece of blue painter's tape. To get an idea of how small these marks are, the small hatches around them are pieces of microfiber:


And lastly, another shot from even further away. Below the lower left of the painter's tape is the GTI emblem for size reference:

[On3Wheels]

Re: H110v2 and Ultimate Compound leaving tiny chips in finish. Micro-marring? Ticks?

I am no expert. Just a wild guess: Did you wipe off Ultimate Compound before it get dry?

Absolutely.

[andytsang]

Re: H110v2 and Ultimate Compound leaving tiny chips in finish. Micro-marring? Ticks?

I am no expert. Just a wild guess: Did you wipe off Ultimate Compound before it get dry?

[On3Wheels]

Re: H110v2 and Ultimate Compound leaving tiny chips in finish. Micro-marring? Ticks?

Is that just a random picture? That looks like a low quality re-paint to me as the cause in that picture. Those look like bubbles in the paint and poor texture matching.

In paint terms, the closest I can come to would be fish eyes, albeit much much smaller. Here's picture of fish eyes for reference, however these aren't even nearly as large as the ones in this picture. They are literally the size of the tip of a pin, Very small, but enough of them to notice under the light. In terms of appearance, they look like these but the size of the tip of a pin.

As for your cars, to understand why I don't think it could be the UC causing it, imagine how the compound works: you take REALLY small micro-abrasives (VERY uniform ones at that, thanks to a new technology exclusive to new polishes and compounds known as SMAT, or Super Micro Abrasive Technology), which are spun in circular-esque motions, each time they pass over the paint they remove a very thin layer of paint, leveling the surface. That is how and why one can create "hologram" type swirls if the process isn't completed.

On that note, the reason it doesn't make a ton of sense that they could create pin-***** type indentations which would require a stationary, straight down motion. Does that make sense?

I'm totally aware how these machines and product work, and what you said makes perfect sense, however, how these marks are appearing doesn't. Believe me, I am as stumped as you are, and quite frankly, disgusted. I'm going to grab an SLR with a macro lens today and HOPEFULLY snap sue pictures of said marks. Stay tuned.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: H110v2 and Ultimate Compound leaving tiny chips in finish. Micro-marring? Ticks?

Is that just a random picture? That looks like a low quality re-paint to me as the cause in that picture. Those look like bubbles in the paint and poor texture matching.

As for your cars, to understand why I don't think it could be the UC causing it, imagine how the compound works: you take REALLY small micro-abrasives (VERY uniform ones at that, thanks to a new technology exclusive to new polishes and compounds known as SMAT, or Super Micro Abrasive Technology), which are spun in circular-esque motions, each time they pass over the paint they remove a very thin layer of paint, leveling the surface. That is how and why one can create "hologram" type swirls if the process isn't completed.

On that note, the reason it doesn't make a ton of sense that they could create pin-***** type indentations which would require a stationary, straight down motion. Does that make sense?

[On3Wheels]

Re: H110v2 and Ultimate Compound leaving tiny chips in finish. Micro-marring? Ticks?

We really need to see pictures. I think there is a lot of confusion here because to me a chip is an indentation of nicked/missing paint, not something you will experience like that from a DA.

Can you feel them with your fingernail?

Maybe my description or choice of words to use wasn't accurate. They aren't technically chips or missing paint, but tiny indentations. They are way too small to feel with your fingernail. In paint terms, the closest I can come to would be fish eyes, albeit much much smaller. Here's picture of fish eyes for reference, however these aren't even nearly as large as the ones in this picture. They are literally the size of the tip of a pin, Very small, but enough of them to notice under the light. In terms of appearance, they look like these but the size of the tip of a pin.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: H110v2 and Ultimate Compound leaving tiny chips in finish. Micro-marring? Ticks?

We really need to see pictures. I think there is a lot of confusion here because to me a chip is an indentation of nicked/missing paint, not something you will experience like that from a DA.

Can you feel them with your fingernail?

[On3Wheels]

Re: H110v2 and Ultimate Compound leaving tiny chips in finish. Micro-marring? Ticks?

I should also add that I just used my G110v2 and some Ultimate Compound on one of my electric guitars to see if it would remove some swirl marks and light scratches, and it did perfectly... however, it left similar "chips" in the finish. Is this micro-marring "ticks" that I'm seeing? I was under the impression that "ticks" were small scratches around 1/8-1/4" or so. These "chips" are about the size of the head of a pin.

[On3Wheels]

Re: H110v2 and Ultimate Compound leaving tiny chips in finish. Micro-marring? Ticks?

ive also noticed that as i start to use compound the fine and deeper scratches that i havent noticed before pop up and so did these lil holes that looked like you say rock chips

I believe the reason the fine and deeper scratches are more noticeable after using the compound is because the swirls, etc. that were previously in the finish masked them. But these "chips" were definitely not in the finish prior to using the Ultimate Compound. They look as if someone took a pin and gouged the paint randomly all of over the car.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: H110v2 and Ultimate Compound leaving tiny chips in finish. Micro-marring? Ticks?

The thing is, given the movement pattern of a DA buffer it wouldn't make any sense that it would chip paint without swirling the heck out of it too.

[Psynx]

Re: H110v2 and Ultimate Compound leaving tiny chips in finish. Micro-marring? Ticks?

ive also noticed that as i start to use compound the fine and deeper scratches that i havent noticed before pop up and so did these lil holes that looked like you say rock chips

[On3Wheels]

Re: H110v2 and Ultimate Compound leaving tiny chips in finish. Micro-marring? Ticks?

What sometimes happens when polishing like this is that you might end up with compound or polish (dried) in the micro-chips that happen from regular driving, which are then accentuated and appear white and obvious.

What parts of the vehicle are you seeing these "chips?"

I have never chipped paint with a DA before, nor have I heard of it or can I think of any way that could happen. I think something else is going on here.

These chips are over the entire car and are identical to the ones that appeared on the test section of the white car and on the spoiler on my buddy's EVO. They are literally the size of a grain of sand, not really noticeable in the sunlight by the average person, but definitely there.

contaminated pad?

That's what I thought of at first, but it was a brand new pad. I have four polishing pads which I swapped out regularly during the entire polishing process.

I'm going to try and borrow my sister's SLR tomorrow and see if I can capture a picture of said chips.