Completely Confused

[thebouncer]

Hello everyone I am new here but I have been trying to read up and understand as much as I can unfortunately I think I'm now suffering from information overload and I am totally confused now

I just bought a brand new 2012 Dodge Charger Blackberry Pearl Color Car.

On the dealer lot it looked shiny as can be, however not shiny enough for me.

I went to the local auto store and got microfiber drying towels, a chamois, a washmit Meguiars Gold Auto Soap, Meguiars NXT 2.0 Liquid Wax


I completely washed and dried the car by hand (no car wash) I used the mit and consistently checked it and cleaned it of any debris it picked up especially around the dirtier areas. I waxed it using the NXT but it wasn't shiny enough to me. Two days later I went back to the store and got Meguiars Carnuba Paste Wax and applied it to the entire car. It looks good but I have been noticing as soon as the slightest dust gets on it I am seeing fine lines in the paint its not scratches almost like spider webs (swirl marks ) I guess you could call them... I have read all sorts of stuff from people claying there cars to using buffers. I used a Sears two speed buffer years ago and absolutely ruined the finish on a car ... I am afraid to do anything with a machine so I wax by hand.

It looks great when it is fresh washed and dried I dont notice these swirls... from a distance you dont notice them either but within 2 feet staring directly down at the hood you can see them.



My question is

1. IS this normal ?

2. How do I fix it ?

3. Should I get Black Fire ? and use that as I want a liquid mirror like finish I hear a lot of people talk about this.

4. Do I need to clay the car and how do I do it without ruining the car ? An Old Timer mentioned using "NU Finish" on the car...and was totally against claying a new car he said I would ruin my clearcoat ??

[ChevyNick]

Re: Completely Confused

My question is

1. IS this normal ?

The spider webbing? I suppose it could be. I don't really know how dealers wash the cars on their lots, but I am sure that is the source of the swirls before the car is ever purchased.

2. How do I fix it ?

Ultimate Compound would probably be the go to product. You could use it by hand, but I really recommend you go out and buy a D/A Buffer. You will NOT ruin your paint. Trust me. Purchase the Meguiars one or Griots Garage 6. I have the GG6 D/A and absolutely love it. It helped me achieve a swirl free finish on my truck. Even with a D/A, it can take some time to get swirls out.

3. Should I get Black Fire ? and use that as I want a liquid mirror like finish I hear a lot of people talk about this.

You probably just need to polish the paint with something such as Ultimate Polish. Ultimate Polish will wetten up your paint, as well as add clarity to your finish. Follow up with a wax after.

4. Do I need to clay the car and how do I do it without ruining the car ? An Old Timer mentioned using "NU Finish" on the car...and was totally against claying a new car he said I would ruin my clearcoat ??

Yes, you should. You should just go buy the Meguiars Clay kit, it comes with everything you'll need. I wouldn't bother with NU Finish. Claying will not ruin your clearcoat.

What you should do (In my opinion):
As long as you think you'll be into detailing, I would spend the money and buy a D/A Buffer as mentioned above.
Then I would wash the car.
Clay the car.
Ultimate Compound with the D/A and a yellow polishing pad (To remove any swirls)
Ultimate Polish with the D/A and a yellow polishing pad (To clear up any hazing, if any. Also adds a beautiful gloss to the paint)
Ultimate Wax / NXT 2.0 applied by hand.


Remember, owning a black car is a lot of work from what I hear. Any little issue will stand out like crazy! But, black simply looks the best when detailed correctly!

[BrightonRT]

Re: Completely Confused

Bouncer,

Answering these a little out of order but it will make more sense...

1.) It is normal, new cars come with swirls all the time, I have a 2010 Challenger that came with very fine swirls in it as well, with a little bit of time and the right products you can get your beauty where you want.

4.) YES. I was a wash only guy until I got my Challenger, and decided to "risk it" and clay my car, fearing the same things this old timer probably did, couldn't have been happier that I did. Even new cars get debris on them, be it from fallout sitting on the dealer lot or even from the shipping containers to get it from the Brampton plant to your home. The clay will remove all of that and your paint will go from feeling rough to smooth as glass. You also need to do it because...

2.) You're most likely going to have to polish out the swirls and the contaminants that you clay off will only inflict more and make the polishing process more difficult.I would recommend picking up some Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish and foam applicator pads if you're doing it by hand. Do not be afraid to invest in a DA polisher. This is quite a bit different from the older ones you worked with. I wouldn't think of doing a Charger by hand myself, those L-family cars have a desceptively large amount of sheetmetal! Look at the how-to and hot topic sections of this forum for some great info. If you have any more questions there's plenty of people here to answer them.

3.) Your choice of product line is completely up to you, I have been very happy with the results I've gotten with Meguiar's and always recommend them because of the customer service.

Here's a few pics of my Dodge after some ultimate polish and 2 coats of NXT.

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?50070-Challenger-Detailed-Thank-you!

I just have one question for you....that thing got a HEMI?

[FX4619]

Wash
Clay
Ultimate Compound (remove swirls)
Polish w/ultimate polish
Wax w/NXT 2.0 or UW
Maintain with UQW

That's it I would invest in an DA polisher. It is much easier and you will see better results.

[ffboy]

Re: Completely Confused

Dust accumulating on your car is quite normal, almost regardless of wax/sealant used. Swirls could have been dealer induced, while it is annoying it can be fixed by using either Ultimate Compound/ultimate polish combo. Megs says not to jump to the most aggressive compound, so you can try out ultimate polish first and if you get decent results (or removed most swirls) then you may not have to use Ultimate compound. I would however still get one if i were you for future use.

A d/a polisher is a good investment for paint correction. It is definitely a big step in making paint correction easier. It can easily cut your paint correction time in half, plus you'll get far superior results. Another factor to consider in using d/a's are the pad/compound combination.

Waxing by hand is perfectly fine, however with d/a polishers you can again get superior results. You'll be able to apply wax a lot thinner and more even vs. hand application.

Maintain with Ultimate quik detailer and quik wax in between. Get a good quality duster, this will minimize the need to wash the car especially if only a thin layer of dust is on the car, use it before using instant detailers/spray waxes.

[1994Gen1L]

Re: Completely Confused

Megs says not to jump to the most aggressive compound, so you can try out ultimate polish first and if you get decent results (or removed most swirls) then you may not have to use Ultimate compound.

A d/a polisher is a good investment for paint correction. It is definitely a big step in making paint correction easier. It can easily cut your paint correction time in half, plus you'll get far superior results. Another factor to consider in using d/a's are the pad/compound combination.

Waxing by hand is perfectly fine, however with d/a polishers you can again get superior results. You'll be able to apply wax a lot thinner and more even vs. hand application.

Maintain with Ultimate quik detailer and quik wax in between. Get a good quality duster, this will minimize the need to wash the car especially if only a thin layer of dust is on the car, use it before using instant detailers/spray waxes.

I would start with Swirl X then step up to Scratch X 2.0 if you do not get the result's you are looking for. A Meg's DA/yellow pad combo will make things a lot easier and then top it off with a black finishing pad and NXT 2.0 or Ultimate Wax.

Up-keep with Ultimate Wash & Wax and the new Gold Class High Gloss Spray Detailer and GCC+ Quick Wax.

[ffboy]

Re: Completely Confused

Start with swirlX first, if you do get a chance to purchase a d/a polisher and appropriate pads, you can experiment with your paint. Try different speeds/pressure/duration on a small area and use that as a guide on how you'll work on the car's paint. SwirlX is milder than UC, then you can jump to a pure polish to really make your car shine. As for ultimate polish after swirlX, I am not too sure about. But usually, it begins with ultimate compound (if defects are real bad) then ultimate polish/swirlX, then wax/sealant.

[thebouncer]

Re: Completely Confused

My question is

Ultimate Compound would probably be the go to product. You could use it by hand, but I really recommend you go out and buy a D/A Buffer. You will NOT ruin your paint. Trust me. Purchase the Meguiars one or Griots Garage 6. I have the GG6 D/A and absolutely love it. It helped me achieve a swirl free finish on my truck. Even with a D/A, it can take some time to get swirls out.


4. Do I need to clay the car and how do I do it without ruining the car ? An Old Timer mentioned using "NU Finish" on the car...and was totally against claying a new car he said I would ruin my clearcoat ??

Yes, you should. You should just go buy the Meguiars Clay kit, it comes with everything you'll need. I wouldn't bother with NU Finish. Claying will not ruin your clearcoat.

What you should do (In my opinion):
As long as you think you'll be into detailing, I would spend the money and buy a D/A Buffer as mentioned above.
Then I would wash the car.
Clay the car.
Ultimate Compound with the D/A and a yellow polishing pad (To remove any swirls)
Ultimate Polish with the D/A and a yellow polishing pad (To clear up any hazing, if any. Also adds a beautiful gloss to the paint)
Ultimate Wax / NXT 2.0 applied by hand.


Remember, owning a black car is a lot of work from what I hear. Any little issue will stand out like crazy! But, black simply looks the best when detailed correctly!

On the D/A Buffer is that a brand of a buffer ?
Also how do I keep from adding swirls or burnig my paint or plastic parts on the car ?

I am really nervous to take clay or a buffer for fear of damaging the clear coat and/or paint this car is only 2 weeks old... I am new to using a buffer and like I say I tried to wax an older car of mine (dodge stratus) with a buffer and liquid wax and it swirled and ruined the finish.

[thebouncer]

Re: Completely Confused

Bouncer,

Answering these a little out of order but it will make more sense...

1.) It is normal, new cars come with swirls all the time, I have a 2010 Challenger that came with very fine swirls in it as well, with a little bit of time and the right products you can get your beauty where you want.

4.) YES. I was a wash only guy until I got my Challenger, and decided to "risk it" and clay my car, fearing the same things this old timer probably did, couldn't have been happier that I did. Even new cars get debris on them, be it from fallout sitting on the dealer lot or even from the shipping containers to get it from the Brampton plant to your home. The clay will remove all of that and your paint will go from feeling rough to smooth as glass. You also need to do it because...

2.) You're most likely going to have to polish out the swirls and the contaminants that you clay off will only inflict more and make the polishing process more difficult.I would recommend picking up some Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish and foam applicator pads if you're doing it by hand. Do not be afraid to invest in a DA polisher. This is quite a bit different from the older ones you worked with. I wouldn't think of doing a Charger by hand myself, those L-family cars have a desceptively large amount of sheetmetal! Look at the how-to and hot topic sections of this forum for some great info. If you have any more questions there's plenty of people here to answer them.

3.) Your choice of product line is completely up to you, I have been very happy with the results I've gotten with Meguiar's and always recommend them because of the customer service.

Here's a few pics of my Dodge after some ultimate polish and 2 coats of NXT.

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?50070-Challenger-Detailed-Thank-you!

I just have one question for you....that thing got a HEMI?

Your car looks fantastic!

I heard claying can and will mar the finish is this true and is each clay different ?

Alas I wanted the Hemi but I drive 200 miles per week to work and needed to get at least 24MPG so I ended up getting the 3.6 V6 VVT Pentastar engine with 8 speed transmission... A Hemi although it would be nice to have would have costed too much in gas, insurance, payments and TICKETS! LOL

[thebouncer]

Re: Completely Confused

What would be your recommendations for a good D/A Buffer ? and wheres the best place to buy online ?

What pads should I use and where should I get them from ? I keep hearing about Lake Country ??

[ChevyNick]

Re: Completely Confused

On the D/A Buffer is that a brand of a buffer ?
Also how do I keep from adding swirls or burnig my paint or plastic parts on the car ?

I am really nervous to take clay or a buffer for fear of damaging the clear coat and/or paint this car is only 2 weeks old... I am new to using a buffer and like I say I tried to wax an older car of mine (dodge stratus) with a buffer and liquid wax and it swirled and ruined the finish.

On the D/A Buffer is that a brand of a buffer ?
Yeah, Meguiars G110V2 is a good D/A Buffer from what I have heard and read. Griots Garage 6" D/A is what I own, and is also a great buffer. I don't think you'd go wrong purchasing either of them.

Also how do I keep from adding swirls or burnig my paint or plastic parts on the car ?
I am really nervous to take clay or a buffer for fear of damaging the clear coat and/or paint this car is only 2 weeks old... I am new to using a buffer and like I say I tried to wax an older car of mine (dodge stratus) with a buffer and liquid wax and it swirled and ruined the finish.

Well, to prevent swirls, you would want to make sure not only the surface you are going to use the D/A on is debris free (clean), but that your pad you are using is clean and debris free as well. To prevent burning of the paint, don't "park" the D/A in any one spot on the paint. Always keep it moving (by moving I mean with your arms) at a really slow speed at least.

Do NOT be nervous! I was in the same boat as you last fall. My dad was even more worried than I was. I took the "chance" and bought the GG6 D/A. I read all the articles on this site, watched videos, and applied everything I learned to my first use of the D/A. It took me probably around a couple hours to really get a good technique down. I'll quickly mention a couple key things that really improved my technique quickly:

1) Proper amount of compound or polish on the pad.
2) Drawing a black line on the back of the pad so you can see it spinning is probably one of THE biggest things a rookie can do to help themselves. Heck, I still do this!
3) Just knowing how the D/A is going to react when you come up to a curve on the body. After a while, you'll just kinda move the D/A flawlessly over any curve in the body.
4) The people on this forum are here to help!! When I was compounding my truck to remove swirls, I got on here and asked why I was having such trouble removing swirls. Even after 6-8 passes, I still had a decent amount of swirls. I was getting really discouraged. The members on here gave me several tips. I went back at it and within 10-15 minutes I was "mastering" what they told me to do, and I was finally making great progress!

Also, remember than a D/A from Griots or Meguiars is of a lot higher quality and much more designed for use on a car than your buffer at Sears is.

As long as you read up on how to use a D/A, watch a video or two, see how to "prime the pad", clean the pad on the fly, add just a small drop or two every pass or so, and you are at least decent with power tools, I know that you will have no issue using a D/A at all. Again, if something isn't going like you thought, stop, and come on here and I guarantee someone here will be able to get you back on track and on your way to flawless results.

A D/A is the best purchase I've ever made in the detailing world. I can't believe I was scared for all these years.

[ChevyNick]

Re: Completely Confused

Since I can't edit my last post,
Noticed you asked this as well:
What would be your recommendations for a good D/A Buffer ? and wheres the best place to buy online ?
Again, Meguiars G110V2 or the Griots Garage 6. I have the GG6, therefore I am going to recommend that one. Amazon is a good place to look.

What pads should I use and where should I get them from ? I keep hearing about Lake Country ??
I hear Lake Country makes good pads, but for guys like you and me who are still new to all this buffing, just use the Meguiars Pads. They work great, and the selection is extremly simple compare to LC, who has many different lines of pads. It could make you go insane lol.
So get the Meguiars Yellow Polishing Pad and the Meguiars Black Finishing Pad. This would probably be a good time to recommend backing plates as well.

Get a S3BP backing plate and get a pair of 4inch polishing pads, Part Number W8204. These will be great for tight areas.
Also, get a pair of the W8207 7 inch polishing pads for larger areas, such as the hood and roof.
You would Compound and Polish with these pads.

As an option, you can get the Black Finishing Pads to apply a wax if you'd like. P/N W9207 for the 7inch pad

Oh and lemme touch once more on the clay thing since I forgot to in my last post. Don't be scared to clay, just lube up the surface well with Quick Detailer and you won't harm anything. Trust me!

[Murr1525]

Re: Completely Confused

D/A meand Dual Action.. it is way the head of the buffer moves. Different brands would make a machine with that kind of movement.

There are different types of clay. The Smooth Surface clay kit is mild, and safe fo all cars, and wont leave marring.

You can certainly work by hand if you wanted, but you would most likely just focus on keeping the car clean/shiny. Removing swirls over the whole car is a pain by hand.

Incidently, causing a few swirls when practicing is not ruining the finish. Swirls are fixable, only burning through the paint is bad. Which is why the DA is recomended.

[thebouncer]

Re: Completely Confused

Okay so I have been reviewing a bunch of information... I have mixed and matched products as I am trying to achieve the best results Here is my lineup I would use th meguiars clay but several people reported that it had sticking issues unlike other clays they have used.

Clay
Blackfire Poly Clay Bar (PolyClay II) - 200 gram

Clay Lube
Poorboy's World Spray & Wipe (S&W)

Polish
Meguiar's Ultra-Cut Compound M105
Meguiar's Ultra Finishing Polish M205

or

Blackfire Scratch Resistant Clear Finishing Polish
Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish

Sealant
Blackfire Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection

Wax
Blackfire Midnight Sun Carnauba Paste Wax

[thebouncer]

Re: Completely Confused

Isnt the ultra cut compound a little aggresive for a new finish or is that the only things that will get the stupid spider lines/swirls out ?

A little offtopic but what would remove black scuff marks on a silver painted car's hood and scratches ? (My friend just got a car and it has tons of scratches). Can these be buffed out and how ?