My BIGGEST complaint about Meguiar's

[detailJH]

First off let me say you make a great product. I frequently try other brands but i am never happy with the results as I am with Meguiar's.
However, why must there be so many different brands of Meguiar's???? Ultimate, Gold Class, NXT, Deep Crystal, Detailer, Meguar's, Mirror Glaze.
I am not going to purchase one of each to see which one is better than the other. I use Detailer all the time, and once Ultimate because I was in a pinch.
There I'm off my soap box, needed to get that off my chest.

[Andy M.]

Re: My BIGGEST complaint about Meguiar's

Well, we kinda always use preach, "find what works for you and use it often". No one ever said you have to try everything that Meguiar's makes or comes out with. The new products are normally improvements on old ones. If you are using pro line products, you have most likely already found what works best for you,, and have obtained the results you want. Myself, I use both Pro and consumer depending on the situation at hand.

Andy

[Markus Kleis]

Re: My BIGGEST complaint about Meguiar's

There are many lines of products because of several reasons, but first and foremost because there is demand for them. Let me explain.

Meguiar's has been around selling detailing products for a very long time, and as a result they serve a very diverse customers base. Some customers prefer the same stuff they have been using for decades, while others want the latest and greatest.

Some consumers simply shop by price, while others want the most advanced technology at any price.

These different products fill different niches and price points and each justifies its existence - if not the product will go away in time.

I fully understand that it can be a bit overwhelming and confusing, but just don't fret about it. Find and use the products that work for you and if you don't have the desire to research or try the other ones, no worries! If you get results you are happy with from the ones you have tried then just keep on doing what works for you.

[greg0303]

Re: My BIGGEST complaint about Meguiar's

I absolutely understand your concerns and overwhelming. But trust me - we need all those products. There are so many different car paint systems in the world, different interior/ exterior materials that all these products developed by Meguiar's have their places in detailing world.

Our Administrator, Michael Stoops, told me one day that at Meguiar's Garage in Irvine, CA there's a poster with all products made by the company and they always say that all aspects of car care are addressed by them.

As a quick scoop:
Consumer Line - extremely user friendly, wide availability, ideal for car care enthusiasts;
Mirror Glaze Professional Line - body and paint shop usage, works with specific issues;
Detailer Professional Line - perfect for car washes, high volume reconditioning facilities, products available in bulk sizes.

If Meguiar's limits their amount of products available, because of your post, I'm gonna be really upset.

[detailJH]

Re: My BIGGEST complaint about Meguiar's

Since you guys are in the know, I have a 12 VW CC and a 07 Escape. all i want is a clean appearence (no gloss) and protection from mother nature ( UV, bird dropping, ect.). I normally wash, paint cleaner (when needed), polish, two coats wax, and final detail wipe. Is there something better than the Detailer brand. Price is no problem. and as i posted some where else the cc is the first real leather I have ever owned, what is the care for that. no cleaner just up keep.

[Murr1525]

Re: My BIGGEST complaint about Meguiar's

I wouldnt worry about the brands, but maybe your process could be more enjoyable.

1. Wash
2. Clay if needed
3. I would use a cleaner/wax here. I would look at ColorX or #66.
4. Wax - Whichever your favorite is.

Its a faster process, and you may enjoy it more, and even do it an extra once or twice a year. That can help most with your goals.

And then for maintaining you could look at either the Ult. Wash and Wax, or wash and then dry with Ult. Quick Wax (or the Detailer Line Synthetic Spray Wax).

And with 2 cars will help.

[JWMotorCars]

My biggest complaint, if you can call it a complaint, is that I want at least one of everything!!! lol

[Blueline]

Re: My BIGGEST complaint about Meguiar's

posted some where else the cc is the first real leather I have ever owned, what is the care for that. no cleaner just up keep.

The leather in your vehicles is called "finished" leather. It has a vinyl coating with built in UV protection. It needs no further "up keep" other than cleaning with a mild soap solution. Most manufactures do not recommend putting anything on finished leather. Read your owers manual under "Appearance and Care of Interior".
My owners manuals certainly does not recommend any conditioners etc. (nothing is absorbed by the vinyl anyway) All that said, if you wish to put on some sort of conditioner, it probably will not hurt, and off course it smells nice.
I have owned finished leather (auto and household applications) and unfinished leather products (horse saddles, etc. etc.) for years, and would only pay good money to condition unfinished leather. On finished leather, it just wipes off...seems a waste to me.
There, I am off my soapbox.

[BillE]

Re: My BIGGEST complaint about Meguiar's

[QUOTE=greg0303;489159]Our Administrator, Michael Stoops, told me one day that at Meguiar's Garage in Irvine, CA there's a poster with all products made by the company and they always say that all aspects of car care are addressed by the them.

/QUOTE]

I'd love to see that poster!

Someone has to go on a spy mission and grab a picture of it.

Bill

[wifpd4]

Re: My BIGGEST complaint about Meguiar's

[QUOTE=BillE;489310]

Our Administrator, Michael Stoops, told me one day that at Meguiar's Garage in Irvine, CA there's a poster with all products made by the company and they always say that all aspects of car care are addressed by the them.

/QUOTE]

I'd love to see that poster!

Someone has to go on a spy mission and grab a picture of it.

Bill

I don't know about a poster, but if you look at the photos of the classroom for the Saturday classes right above the donuts is a wall of products. A three dimensional poster? Mr. Stoops did check through my luggage when I left, but he didn't find the bottle of ColorX I stuffed in my sock.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: My BIGGEST complaint about Meguiar's

Ah yes, a classic of what we call "the wall of confusion".

For the average consumer, the Detailer Line and Mirror Glaze Line will most likely never been seen as they aren't sold (for the most part anyway) through typical retail channels like major auto parts store chains (think Autozone, Pep Boys, Advance, O'Reilly's etc) or WalMart, Target, etc. so they aren't overwhelmed by all those part numbers. But just within the consumer line things can get a bit confusing for someone new to car care. If you just want a wax, what do you pick? Gold Class, Cleaner Wax, NXT 2.0, ColorX, Ultimate Wax, Deep Crystal Carnauba?????? And why on earth would one company offer so many different waxes????

Well, some people are huge fans of carnauba. It's what dad used, and it's what they know. So Gold Class and Deep Crystal Carnauba would be their choices, and the price differential between the two will be a deciding factor for that person. Other people want the best synthetic protection they can get their hands on, so up until 2011 NXT Generation Tech Wax 2.0 was their go to. With the introduction of Ultimate Wax this year we've stepped that segment up a notch. Others just want a decent, easy to use cleaner wax that they'll use once a month just to keep a daily driver looking above average, and A12 Cleaner Wax and ColorX fit that persons needs.

The Mirror Glaze Line is where people start to get confused. They often think that because it's our "professional line" it must automatically be better than our consumer line. But the reality is that the pro line is designed for pro use, meaning for the most part use in an environment where fresh paint is being sprayed - body shops, OEM facilities, custom shops, etc. In those environments almost everything is done by rotary buffer and there are certain ingredients that, although they can often make a product easier to use, are taboo where fresh paint is being sprayed. So the pro line products must be formulated with those considerations in mind. And that often makes the products inappropriate for the general consumer to use. Further, since the average "guy on the street" isn't all that knowledgeable about the subtle differences in paint systems or workflow processes, they see what looks like 9 bottles of stuff that all claim to do the same thing. Or they see part numbers and figure there must be something more to them than merely that, a simple part number. They think that there must be sequence to these numbers, but there isn't. Why so many products that seemingly do the exact same thing? Because paint systems can vary dramatically; because operators utilize different workflows in their day to day workings; because some products are geared toward single stage lacquer paints while others are more modern in formulation and will work better on modern clear coat finishes. To the guy making his living working with these products, this is critical information. We liken all of this to a mechanics tool box. Even see the inside of a good mechanics's toolbox? Ever wonder why he needs so darn many wrenches? After all, every single one of those wrenches does the exact same thing; loosens or tightens a nut or bolt. That's it. But nuts and bolts come in so many different sizes and types, under so many different applications, that no single wrench can cover all applications.

What's great about us having such an extensive pro line is that we can take some of that technology and transfer it to our consumer line, but in a formulation tweaked in such a way that it's much easier to use in the hands of a novice. Think Ultimate Compound compared to M105. UC is derived from M105 and uses very similar abrasive technology but when used on a DA buffer it doesn't create anywhere near the amount of dust that M105 will on that tool. It's also much more forgiving, meaning you don't need to learn any really specialized techniques to get the most out of it. We use UC in every one of our Saturday Classes and have removed pretty severe defects from a huge variety of vehicles with it. This concept is sort of like a car manufacturer who not only sells cars to the general public but also has an in-house racing program where they can develop new technologies that eventually trickle down to their road cars. Now, it should be noted that the Mirror Glaze Line is our company's heritage - it's where we started way back in 1901. We didn't even have a consumer product until 1973 - Cleaner Wax. Yes, virtually the same Cleaner Wax we sell today, and it still sells like crazy today.

Our Detailer Line opens up a whole new ball of wax (no pun intended) as it was designed for a specific market segment as well - high volume facilities such as commercial car wash chains, volume reconditioning facilities (like Mannheim Auctions), car rental agencies who maintain huge fleets of vehicles, etc. The Detailer Line is basically an industrial chemical line. You'll notice that these products are sold in large quantities only, with 1 gallon bottles generally the smallest size available. We routinely sell these products in 5 gallon containers, 55 gallon drums, and 3500 gallon tote bins. But they can be used by enthusiasts, are very often are. For a pro detailer they can make great economic sense since they'll be working on a few cars a day, every day of the week. For a dealership that's prepping many cars a day for delivery, it would make no sense to purchase consumer products in 16 oz bottles, but for a guy who's just keeping his own car clean a gallon of dilutable product might be overkill.

In order to help break down that wall of confusion we've printed the phone number to our Customer Care Center on the back of every bottle of product we make. Our CCC regularly gets phone calls from people standing in a WalMart or other retail store, confused about what to buy. So our guys will ask them not only what kind of car they have, but what the condition is, how they'll be working on the car (by hand, DA, etc), how much time they're willing to put into it (to some a couple of hours a month is almost too much while others revel in a three day weekend so they can finally get their car looking the way they want), and what their expectations are. We don't have a single script in the building, no pat answers; they'll talk to you about your issue or question for as long as it takes to answer it.

[Jack Barnhill]

Re: My BIGGEST complaint about Meguiar's

Thanks, Mike, for the explanation about the product lines. There are a couple of comments about the consumer line that I hope you will clarify.

"So Gold Class and Deep Crystal Carnauba would be their choices, and the price differential between the two will be a deciding factor for that person."

Are Gold Class and Deep Crystal Carnuba the same product with the same features and benefits and only the packaging and price point as a differentiator?

"and A12 Cleaner Wax and ColorX fit that persons needs"

Again, are these products the same with only packaging and price point differences?

Could you explain in more detail where and how to get the most benefit from these products?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: My BIGGEST complaint about Meguiar's

Sure thing, Jack.

First, Gold Class Carnauba vs Deep Crystal Carnauba. Gold Class is definitely a premium step up over Deep Crystal. DC is what we call a "pure wax" meaning it has no cleaning ability and no polish. GC is a polish wax, so it will do more to darken dark colors and even help to hide some minor defects. Along with some specialized polymers blended in, GC should provide a bit better protection and longer life than DC.

Second, A12 Cleaner Wax vs ColorX. Think of CX as A12 on steroids - it's a noticeable step up in cleaning ability and is much more closely related to M66 in our Mirror Glaze line than anything else. It will clean better than A12 and should last a bit longer too.

[Jack Barnhill]

Re: My BIGGEST complaint about Meguiar's

Thanks for the explanation.

I can see that there is a noticiable feature/performance difference between Gold Class Carnauba and Deep Crystal Carnauba as well as a significant price difference. Either of which could influence the choice of product.

In the case of ColorX vs. A12 Cleaner Wax, they are the same list price but ColorX seems to offer much better performance. Is there a set of circumstances where A12 would be the better product choice over ColorX?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: My BIGGEST complaint about Meguiar's

Actually, A12 Cleaner Wax lists at $7.99 while ColorX is $10.99, plus A12 is available as a liquid or paste. For some people, that $3 is enough to sway their opinion. Remember, to a huge population it's "just wax". But there's something right in A12 as it's been around, virtually unchanged, since 1973 (our very first consumer product) and it still sells extremely well.