Why clay before I use 105?

[davidc11291]

So I've started a side business buying and selling cars. Of course, making the cars look amazing is critical and puts more money in my pocket, and I've fallen in love with exterior detailing.

My question is this- When I have a vehicle with severe swirl marks and scratches that I know I'm gonna use 105 on, should I still clay the vehicle before the 105? I know that clay removes particles bonded to the surface, and 105 removes defects below the surface, but it seems to me that the abrasive properties of 105 would cut through everything- surface bonded particles and sub-surface defects alike. And please don't say because you should always use the least aggressive product necessary to accomplish the job. I'm talking about cars with heavily damaged paint that will unquestionably require 105, so it's not like if I clay it first I may not have to use a compound.

BTW- being totally uneducated in this world, I've spent hours and hours on YouTube, other websites, here, reading and learning. I decided I'm only gonna use high end, quality chemicals, but I didn't know if I should go with 3M, Meguiar's, or some other product line. The customer support that Meguiar's has given me made my decision easy. What other company has a dedicated customer service phone line where I can ask an expert for advice (no sales pitch and I NEVER sit on hold) AND provides a great forum? SWEET....

[daniel clark]

Re: Why clay before I use 105?

Well sure why not,since you love it clay it you will get better results in the end!

[davidc11291]

Re: Why clay before I use 105?

Well sure why not,since you love it clay it you will get better results in the end!

The answer to your "why not" is because it seems unnecessary. It seems to me that the paint surface will be exactly the same after I use the 105, regardless of whether I use the clay beforehand or not.

You said it will provide better results in the end. Please explain how.

[ethereal45]

Re: Why clay before I use 105?

I am a complete detailing beginner, but from what I've been able to ascertain through reading these forums is that the general goal is to perform each step to the highest possible level so that the next product will have the best possible canvas upon which to work.

I'm sure 105 can sheer off plenty of the bonded contaminants that clay can, but why wouldn't you want to give yourself the best possible surface for 105 to act on?

[TOGWT]

Re: Why clay before I use 105?

Brake dust particles are abrasive and will alter the ability of your polish / pad combination and may even tear you foam pads. Better to polish a 'clean' surface

[BlackScreaminMachine]

Re: Why clay before I use 105?

^ If he did not say it, I would.

You would be suprised how much contamination is on the surfact and especially if you pick up something washing did not and spun it all into the paint. Could do much more damage and need further correction. You have only so much clear to work with.

All you need to do is spray lubricant, rub the clay over, and move on. I always would do a final wash/dry before moving on to the correction stage. Having the cleanest surface allows you to focus on leveling the clear.

[BillyJack]

Re: Why clay before I use 105?

I've been in the car business for almost 40 years. Prior to widespread use of clay in the 90's, it was common for a car to undergo the whole detail process, including rotary compounding, polishing and wax, and still have contaminants bonded to the surface. IMO, clay is the most significant improvement in the industry. It allows you to smooth the surface without compromising the paint film thickness. I know it adds to the prep time, but for the best results I would clay every car I was preparing to polish.

Bill

[InfiniteDetail]

Re: Why clay before I use 105?

I agree with Bill. If you don't remove the bonded contaminants from the surface before compounding, you also run the risk of adding paint defects as you grind the contamination into the paint. You may get inconsistent results as the 105 is removing defects while at the same time contamination on the pad is introducing new defects. Work clean

[davidc11291]

Re: Why clay before I use 105?

awesome info. Thanks guys.

[davidc11291]

Re: Why clay before I use 105?

Great info. Thanks a million. So let me ask this.

Here's something Mike said in the thread linked below-


"Clay first, then use a paint cleaner. The only exception is for extremely oxidized finishes where there is so much oxidized paint on the surface that it is more effective to remove the heavy oxidation before using the clay. (Otherwise you load your clay up with dead, oxidized paint that could have been better removed using a paint cleaner)."

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...ered&highlight=

Does this mean that on 10 year old cars that have never seen a coat of wax and are heavily oxidized, I should do a quick pass with 105 first (to remove the oxidation), then clay, then go back and do my correction with the 105? Or does this mean that I should do a quick pass with 105 to remove the oxidation then go back and do my correction with the 105 (and totally skip the claying)?

[BillyJack]

Re: Why clay before I use 105?

I still stand by my first answer. I'd rather clay first to remove any garbage from the surface before any of the other correction steps. I'd rather load up my clay with garbage than my pads. Just my opinion.

Bill

[the other pc]

Re: Why clay before I use 105?

...."Clay first, then use a paint cleaner. The only exception is for extremely oxidized finishes where there is so much oxidized paint on the surface that it is more effective to remove the heavy oxidation before using the clay. (Otherwise you load your clay up with dead, oxidized paint that could have been better removed using a paint cleaner)."....

....Does this mean that on 10 year old cars that have never seen a coat of wax and are heavily oxidized, I should do a quick pass with 105 first (to remove the oxidation), then clay, then go back and do my correction with the 105? ....

Probably not.

A car that's ten years old isn't likely to have that sort of heavy oxidation.

Back in the days of single stage finishes you often saw paint turn white and chalky with age. They didn't just fade and turn hazy. They literally felt like chalk, dusty, crusty and chunky.

You hardly ever see that anymore. Clearcoats will peel off before they get to that stage. Even single stage urethanes don't seem to do it like the old lacquers and acrylic enamels used to.

So unless you deal with classic cars you probably won't ever have that issue.



pc.

[overedline]

Re: Why clay before I use 105?

So I've started a side business buying and selling cars. Of course, making the cars look amazing is critical and puts more money in my pocket, and I've fallen in love with exterior detailing.

My question is this- When I have a vehicle with severe swirl marks and scratches that I know I'm gonna use 105 on, should I still clay the vehicle before the 105? I know that clay removes particles bonded to the surface, and 105 removes defects below the surface, but it seems to me that the abrasive properties of 105 would cut through everything- surface bonded particles and sub-surface defects alike. And please don't say because you should always use the least aggressive product necessary to accomplish the job. I'm talking about cars with heavily damaged paint that will unquestionably require 105, so it's not like if I clay it first I may not have to use a compound.

BTW- being totally uneducated in this world, I've spent hours and hours on YouTube, other websites, here, reading and learning. I decided I'm only gonna use high end, quality chemicals, but I didn't know if I should go with 3M, Meguiar's, or some other product line. The customer support that Meguiar's has given me made my decision easy. What other company has a dedicated customer service phone line where I can ask an expert for advice (no sales pitch and I NEVER sit on hold) AND provides a great forum? SWEET....

I've been polishing my own cars since before clay ever came to market and have never used clay and never felt the need to. Polish cuts the surface and removes all that embedded dirt/oxidation/swirls/contaminants/etc.. If its on the paint/clearcoat, polishing is going to remove it because polish is akin to 10,000 grit sandpaper taking off a thin layer of clearcoat (or paint if its a pre-1980's car).

I'd like to propose a little challenge to all of the "clay first" people...

Next time you wash your car, take some polishing compound and go over a small section, then take your clay bar and go over that same section and see it if picks up anything. I'm confident you'll find that the polish alone did a fantastic clean-up job.

[LS1BERLINA]

Re: Why clay before I use 105?

I've been polishing my own cars since before clay ever came to market and have never used clay and never felt the need to. Polish cuts the surface and removes all that embedded dirt/oxidation/swirls/contaminants/etc.. If its on the paint/clearcoat, polishing is going to remove it because polish is akin to 10,000 grit sandpaper taking off a thin layer of clearcoat (or paint if its a pre-1980's car).

I'd like to propose a little challenge to all of the "clay first" people...

Next time you wash your car, take some polishing compound and go over a small section, then take your clay bar and go over that same section and see it if picks up anything. I'm confident you'll find that the polish alone did a fantastic clean-up job.

Some reasons to clay before/instead of polish:

1. By claying, you are removing the contaminants gently from the paint and into the clay, instead of into a buffing pad/applicator which could then drag those contaminants across the paint and leave swirls or marring
2. People may not have the time to polish and may instead choose to clay (it is faster and easier)
3. If your paint has contaminents, but is defect free, clay is the least agressive method to remove those contaminants without unecessarily removing clear coat

Personally, i think clay is one of the most underrated and underappreciated pieces of detailing equipment ever. I know I wont go 6 months without claying my car.

[overedline]

Re: Why clay before I use 105?

Some reasons to clay before/instead of polish:

1. By claying, you are removing the contaminants gently from the paint and into the clay, instead of into a buffing pad/applicator which could then drag those contaminants across the paint and leave swirls or marring
2. People may not have the time to polish and may instead choose to clay (it is faster and easier)
3. If your paint has contaminents, but is defect free, clay is the least agressive method to remove those contaminants without unecessarily removing clear coat

Personally, i think clay is one of the most underrated and underappreciated pieces of detailing equipment ever. I know I wont go 6 months without claying my car.

Those are all valid reasons, but auto detailers have been restoring and maintaining fantastic looking finishes for decades before clay came along. If you feel you're getting something more out if it than just polishing alone then more power to you, but I am willing to bet that if you divided a car's hood in two halves and did one half with clay and polish and the other half with polish only you would not be able to tell the difference between the two halves. The question posed by the OP was not whether to clay or polish, but whether he needs to clay before polishing. I'm aware that clay is the best way to clean a finish without using abrasives.