Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

[Kubbie]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

Let's look at the old Dodge first here:

Slow tool speed, basically one section pass, M83 (fairly mild stuff) on a finishing pad via rotary. Honestly, we're surprised you even got as far as you did!!! With the condition of that paint, and the very gentle approach you took, it's almost like you're trying to dig a tunnel with a teaspoon. While we applaud you're approach of going easy at first, you've gone so easy that you just can't accomplish very much.

I work as a carpenter, that reminded of a quote I've heard:

"If it doesn't fit, don't force it...use a bigger hammer"

I used a bigger hammer today, I'll post photos in the next post.

Actually, as a carpenter I've worked with an 10,000 rpm angle grinder a lot (sanding disks, diamond wheels on tile, concrete grinding)
I'm very comfortable with a grinder and knowing the feel of holding the angle and pressure, (This rotary is basically a grinder just slower with variable speed), so that part for me really isn't much of a learning curve.

It's more the products, which ones, when, how long and fast...

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

Let's look at the old Dodge first here:

Slow tool speed, basically one section pass, M83 (fairly mild stuff) on a finishing pad via rotary. Honestly, we're surprised you even got as far as you did!!! With the condition of that paint, and the very gentle approach you took, it's almost like you're trying to dig a tunnel with a teaspoon. While we applaud you're approach of going easy at first, you've gone so easy that you just can't accomplish very much. A decent DA like the Porter Cable you're picking up will get you farther along than this particular process. And the great news in all of the above is that you can use the pad and liquids you used on the rotary with the new DA! Even better news is that with the DA you should be able to speed through the light swirls present on the new Toyota with virtually zero risk. But do yourself a huge favor and pick up a W8207 polishing pad to correct those defects - it will go a lot quicker.

As for doing the actual work on the new Toyota, have a read through D/A Buffing 101 – An Introduction to the G110v2 and similar tools to get familiar with the process before you start. But it really is an easy process that can yield very impressive results, especially when you follow the steps outlined in that article.

We also don't believe for a second that Blazebro was recommending you to wet sand either vehicle. Quite honestly, a cutting pad and compound is what most experienced rotary users would likely have gone straight to on the Dodge, and he's got that experience. Kubbie, you obviously know your limits at this point, and that's great - it means you know what advice to take and what to hold off on for a bit. But the only way you're ever going to address the orange peel on the Toyota would be through wet sanding then rotary compounding to remove the sanding marks. But we don't recommend that process on factory paint anyway since, as Greg points out, factory clear coat is usually pretty thin. You're going to have to live with it, honestly.

[smack]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

Normally it's a wet sanding, but I'd start with an aggressive polish on a cutting pad and see what happens first.

See what happens first huh?? Great advice for a rookie. Sheesh.

Kubbie, Please dont listen to his advice as you will do more harm than good to your Toyota.

[greg0303]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

I know you wrote "I'd start..."
but me, uhm...no.
I'd say sending off a rookie off wet sanding / aggresive compound / cutting pad on a brand new car is is a little too bold of advice -... "1st time on a rotary".
Venza's not getting touched until I spend some time on some junk yard panels practicing.

Orange peel removal from factory paint (which is thin and hard) is a risky operation.

[Kubbie]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

Normally it's a wet sanding, but I'd start with an aggressive polish on a cutting pad and see what happens first.

I know you wrote "I'd start..."
but me, uhm...no.

I'd say sending off a rookie off wet sanding / aggresive compound / cutting pad on a brand new car is is a little too bold of advice -... "1st time on a rotary".


Venza's not getting touched until I spend some time on some junk yard panels practicing.

[Blazebro]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

Cant do much to fix the orange peel.

But no need for a rotary on that I'm sure.

Normally it's a wet sanding, but I'd start with an aggressive polish on a cutting pad and see what happens first.

[Murr1525]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

Cant do much to fix the orange peel.

But no need for a rotary on that I'm sure.

[greg0303]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

That's a very nice car. I like the color as well.

You're gonna like your Porter Cable polisher. It's a great and reliable machine.

Two bucket method (with grit guards even better) plus good microfiber towels will guarantee swirl free car washes.


I heard about Ford producing orange peel lately but not Toyota. That's not good if your car's got it as well.

After you master your technique with a DA it's gonna help you with easier transition to rotary buffers.

Let us know about your M205 experience.

[Kubbie]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

The Venza doesn't need much correction,

Well, swirl and scratches - not much.

But as for orange peel on the other hand, about as heavy as I've seen on a new car.
I liked everything else on the Venza, but out of all he cars we looked at buying, I hated this paint texture the most.

Is this typical of new Toyota's?

(OK, sidetrack from my original post - but is it a highjack if I started the thread?)


Back to the Dodge, I did pick up some 205 yesterday to practice on the Dodge, I'll post picks of how it goes when I get to it.

[Kubbie]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

It's a Drill Master 92623

I did order a PC 7424XP today. I have a couple month old Toyota Venza, and I'm not sure I know products or technique enough to take a rotary to it. I'd feel better with a D/A on the new car.

The Venza doesn't need much correction, Just light swirls - either when the dealer washed or what I did with my brush/1 bucket technique (before I started reading here!)
And I've only gone touchless carwashes - no automatic spinning equipment.

[BS MXRacer]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

Which model harbor freight rotary did you purchase, they make two?

[Kubbie]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

You want to work on smaller area than a half of the hood. If it's a small vehicle a quarter would be better.

Just saw that on a video, that a hood is typically 4 - 6 sections.
Now I know.

What speed settings did you use with M82/ M83?

Greg - Don't know, Slow to medium. I posted that question on a different thread, but no answer yet..

I'm a noob hobby rotary user. I picked up the Harbor Freight el cheapo.

I looked in the documentation, but couldn't find anywhere what their marks correspond to actual RPM's. Any help as well?

Rob

[greg0303]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

1st question - should I try the 105 / 205 route with SMAT instead of the DAT system? I don't know when/where each fit in.

M105 is gonna give you more cut and faster defect removal, it uses newest SMA technology. M205 is a great follow up.

I don't mind spending money on this, I just don't know what to buy yet, what size pads (I think this 8" is too big for my liking - do y'all like the 6.5" better?)
Should I add wool, 7000, 8000 series pads as well?

With rotary buffers is reverse: large pad - more aggressiveness due to faster speed of outer edges. If you feel like 8" pads are too big you could switch to 7" or 6.5" size.
Wool pads cut even faster than foam cutting pads but tend to leave more of their own traces behind.
You need polishing pads 8xxx. 7xxx are cutting pads and 9xxx finishing pads.
I'm not doing this to start a detailing business, just see it as a new found hobby.

You want to work on smaller area than a half of the hood. If it's a small vehicle a quarter would be better.

Lake Country Kompressor pads are great to master your rotary skills because they don't concentrate heat so there's much lower risk of paint burning.

What speed settings did you use with M82/ M83?

[Kubbie]

This is a 1996 work van, 175k miles. Never compouded, polished, nor waxed...
Mostly parked outside, mix of Chicago winter salt and sun.

I'm new here, so interested in learning detailing, paint correction.
Figured this is a car I'm not too worried about ruining.


I started with a wash, dry, and then clayed the hood.

Here is the starting point, rolled it out in the run to get the shots.



Paint is chipped, oxidized, pitted, scratched, swirled, sap and bird droppings from parking under a tree. I'm pretty sure this is the clear coat failing.

Hundreds of chips on the hood:



Had to hunt hard for an area without too many chips or clear failing to show just swirls.














Since this is just a weekend warrior having fun, I bought a HF VS polisher and a 9000 pad. I know it's just a finishing pad, but since I don't know what I'm doing, I figured less aggressive is better (- on the other hand I can't really make this car any worse...)

Taped 1/2 the hood and just worked the right side.

- Is that too big of an area to work at one time? It seemed like it was...

1. Just 1 pass L-R, 1 pass up-down with some M83 pretty slow.
2. Wiped with a MF.
3. Cranked up the speed to high to spin out the 83 out the pad, then while spinning took a towel to clean up the pad.
4. Then applied some 82 to the same pad, and again 1 pass L-R, 1 pass up-down.
5. Wiped with a MF.
6. Washed the car - splatter everywhere!!! Need to get that part figured out.

After:





Most of the swirls are gone, I'm guessing a second try with 83 / 82 would get it. But with the deeper scratches, pitting and chips - there's no saving it other than a repaint (which it's not getting).



This is just practice before I take a machine to any of my cars that I care about...
I'll take any advice, comments or criticism (I have thick enough skin).

1st question - should I try the 105 / 205 route with SMAT instead of the DAT system? I don't know when/where each fit in.

I don't mind spending money on this, I just don't know what to buy yet, what size pads (I think this 8" is too big for my liking - do y'all like the 6.5" better?)
Should I add wool, 7000, 8000 series pads as well?

I'm not doing this to start a detailing business, just see it as a new found hobby.