Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

[Kubbie]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

Been very busy with the kids sports and work, but still manage to get in and play around on my 1996 beater test car some. The horizontal surfaces (hood and roof have clear coat failure, but the vertical panels' paint is fine (minus the dents, scratches and rust )

After working on my Venza, I'm learning that the Toyota's paint is much more delicate than this Dodge.

I picked up a wool pad and some 105, I learned that is the combo this paint needs.

Steps for this shot:
1. Wool + 105 rotary
2. 8007 polishing pad and m205 rotary
3. 9xxx and Ultimate polish - D/A

Real nice gloss.

[icare]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

awesome!
you are totally right when you said you view cars differently.
especially at stop lights!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

[QUOTE=Kubbie;465565]I probably would have paid for a professional correction and detail by now.
QUOTE]

Maybe so, but that's a one time payment for a one time correction. You now have enough product, and enough knowledge, to keep 2 or 3 cars looking great for a couple of years without spending any more money. Even then, all you'll have to buy are a couple bottles of product and maybe a pad or two. In the long run, you're saving money and gaining satisfaction.


**** ducks head while all the pro detailers on the forum start throwing things at me ****

[Kubbie]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

Well, I don't know if I should thank this site, or hate it.
I look at my cars with a different eye now.

Or, I'll be at a red light and look over at at 10 year old black car and think, "man, if I could have a day with that swirled mess..."

I think it is becoming an illness, obsession.
Just look at my short time here (Joined in April) - storage tote full of Meg's stuff, a rotary and a PC D/A, and a load of new microfiber towels.
(Meguiar's Marketing guys are thinking - how do we duplicate this guy's spending habits?)

Plus, I have 105, wool pad and polishing pads that should be in Monday or Tuesday. (Also now considering the 4" pads for the DA on pillars, contours and rockers.)

I probably would have paid for a professional correction and detail by now.
But at least this hobby has a final result that has some value.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

Do I go to wool with the #4, or cutting pad with an something like 85, 95?
I read a lot of fans of 105, but isn't that the highest octane product?

You're getting really nice results, noob or not, with what you're using. Obviously since you're having so much fun with this you'll want to experiment with other products, learn new techniques, etc. The M04 you're using is great stuff, but kind of an old school product. M85 is too. Not that that's a bad thing, especially considering M85 is pretty terrific in it's own right, but you'll have a much different experience using products like M105 with the SMAT abrasives. This can really be key when you're looking to do the job in just a couple of steps since M105, while offering more cut, tends to finish out much nicer than M04 or M85. As you know by now, the level of cut you obtain from any product is impacted by the pad you're using and the speed you're running the buffer at. So while M105 may give more cut in and of itself than M04 does, you can cut more with M04 on an aggressive wool pad at 1800 rpm than you can with M105 on a foam polishing pad at 1000 rpm.

It is quite common to run M105 even on a wool pad, and finish off with M205 on either a foam polishing or finishing pad and be ready for wax/sealant.

I dunno if I should just keep adding on to my thread, but nothing new really worth starting a new one on, so just a few more pics.
Probably boring for you veterans, but exciting for me that paint can actually be fixed like this.

Boring? Watching someone share their thought process as they learn this craft, and get the sort of results you're getting? Boring? For some of it's a reward watching this happen, so by all means please keep it up!

No matter how hard I tried, couldn't buff that dent out.

All those people posting "yeah, that'll buff right out" all over the internet have never actually tried, have they??

[cnfowler]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

Kubbie, you're making it along just fine. Depending on how bad a finish is and what you're trying to accomplish (80%, 100% correction, etc), a 3 step or even a 4 step may be in order.

Colin

[TruckGuy24]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

Nice work so far man

[Kubbie]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

I dunno if I should just keep adding on to my thread, but nothing new really worth starting a new one on, so just a few more pics.
Probably boring for you veterans, but exciting for me that paint can actually be fixed like this.

I was curious on how the paint would look on my wife's Honda Odyssey, about a 100,000 miles, but for 10 years old still in great shape. Silver metallic. Just the front door and quarter panel.

I started with 205 and a 9000 pad to be safe - but didn't take out the swirls.
Feel pretty good with the rotary now, so I felt safe enough to go with 83 and a 7000 pad.
That got them probably around 95%, then back to the 205.
Quick pass with some 82 on the finishing pad.
Good enough on this light color.


Before:





After: The metallic really pops after the 205.



I have a question, do most people shoot for a 2 product/pad combo before sealer/wax?
This would take me a long time to go 3 or 4 times around. I just haven't bought the right stuff to get me 2 passes and done (maybe I'll buy some 105 this week).
I know speed isn't good, and I'm not trying to rush through, but I'm taking way too long.


And I should finish that red dodge so it doesn't look like a patchwork of before and afters, but oh well...

[Kubbie]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

Well the wife had a GNO, so I got the kids to bed early and pulled the Dodge into the garage.
This time a bigger section, passenger side rear quarter and sliding door.
Something rubbed against it hard, paint transfer. Concrete guy put a big dent in the back four years ago. And of course 15 years of swirls.

Got better at how not to splatter, buffer speed settings, picking up a line of compound, and time worked. Many intricacies in this rotary work... 5 hours flew buy fast. I would have to charge $1000 to do a car!
But then, credit to the pro's who know what products and how to work them effectively.

I didn't do much detailed progress shots, but a few more before and afters:






Almost no reflection of the carp in the garage!





Got to work with some Deep crystal paint cleaner and then clay.
Next off with Meguiar's Heavy cut cleaner, 83, 205, and then 82...and the Harbor Freight rotary.
I can see why it's a cheap tool, a little bit of slight pressure and it slows.


I noticed the #4 Heavy Cut cleaner on the cutting pad doesn't get all the swirls and scratches (even 2 or 3 tries), but I'm scared with anything more aggressive.

Do I go to wool with the #4, or cutting pad with an something like 85, 95?
I read a lot of fans of 105, but isn't that the highest octane product?



After shots.





Never saw a reflection like this on this car!





No matter how hard I tried, couldn't buff that dent out.




A big thanks to all the contributors here, I've picked up a wealth of info already.

Rarely is there a new question that already hasn't been asked.
Just search and read.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

I work as a carpenter, that reminded of a quote I've heard:

"If it doesn't fit, don't force it...use a bigger hammer"

I used a bigger hammer today, I'll post photos in the next post.

Actually, as a carpenter I've worked with an 10,000 rpm angle grinder a lot (sanding disks, diamond wheels on tile, concrete grinding)
I'm very comfortable with a grinder and knowing the feel of holding the angle and pressure, (This rotary is basically a grinder just slower with variable speed), so that part for me really isn't much of a learning curve.

It's more the products, which ones, when, how long and fast...

That experience with high speed rotary style tools will likely serve you well. Of course, the material you're working on here (paint) and the degree to which you're trying to correct it (literally a few microns of thickness is all) can pose some unique challenges. Paint's worst enemy in this process is heat, and just so you know, the foam cutting pad you're using can generate a lot of heat in very short order - much more so than a wool pad will, even the wool provides more cut overall.

From your subsequent post, however, it looks like you're well on your way to getting the process nailed.

[greg0303]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

You're a quick learner, Rob.





I hope these charts help you, both originally posted by our Administrator, Michael Stoops.

[smack]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

Well just make sure you really have your technique down pat before you attack the new Venza. Even then I suggest the D/A for the Yota no matter what. Just so you dont mess up a new vehicle.

[Kubbie]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

No, I may have confused you by posting a pic of the Venza, since both the new Toyota and the 15 year old dodge are both red.

This is not the new car with the orange peel. This is my old car I'm practicing on.

[smack]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

Well Kubbie, Looks like you have proved me wrong and I remove my previous comment.

[Kubbie]

Re: Noob 1st time on a rotary on my beater car - Paint is beyond correction!

So I had just a little time to play around again today on the Dodge van.
I picked the side driver side sliding door which clear is fine, not a lot of chips - just dents, swirls, and some deep scratches.


Door before, washed and clayed:





I went to the store and they had a 7000 cutting pad, no 8000 in stock. I'll try another place tomorrow for the 8000 pad.





Some of the stuff I had to play with:




Today I taped two smaller areas than 1/2 the hood I worked on the other day.
I did two different steps to compare. I also bough some Quik Detailer to mist the pads 1st.


1. Left side got the cutting pad with Heavy Cut Cleaner #4
2. Right side I started with cutting pad and #83 first




Then both sides got another pass of #83 on the cutting pad.
Finished up with the Finishing pad and 205 on both sides.




Here is a shot after with the tape pulled off. It is cropped and blown up to show detail - that is the pinstripe at the top.

The right side does has light swirls remaining.

The left side with the Heavy Cut cleaner has better color and clarity, and almost no swirls left. It definitely needed the more aggressive compound.





The left side looks great (minus the dents ), the scratch is deep, you can feel it with the nail. You can see the side on the right that only got the 83, 205 is hazy.

I actually had no idea the paint on this car could look so good, I was blown away! Last, gave it a swipe with some NXT 2.0 to see what it can look like.





I guess more to come when the D/A arrives.

Rob.