Water etch marks after 2 layers of waxing!

[triplezero]

Hi Guys,

3 days ago, I washed (Ultimate W&W shampoo), clayed, polished/cleaned (SwirlX using DA), and waxed (NXT 2.0 using DA). A day later, i applied another layer of wax (NXT 2.0 using hand). Paint was smooth as ever, and never looked better.

My car was parked outside yesterday, and it rained at over the night, I was impressed with the water beading. Then, this afternoon, it was a pretty hot day with a hot sunshine. When I took the car out in the late afternoon, I was shocked that there was very very obvious water stains, and when i tried to touch it, i realised that the water mark was NOT a layer on top of the paint which it usually was before i gave the car a major detail. Previously, after it rained and dried, it seemed that the water mark was a layer OVER the paint, i was able to use a finger and gently rub off the water mark if i wanted to. But today, it seemed that the water mark was a layer BELOW the paint/clear coat/ wax layer, kinda like sunken down. (See picture attached.) Couldnt rub it off even with a moist micro fiber cloth.

What happened?

I was so pissed and washed the car using the Ultimate W&W. Most of the stains were removed, but a couple, about 20% of them, were still visible. I then used Ultimate Quick Wax and after wipling dry. The marks were less visible. Then i appplied another layer of NXT 2.0. I still wasnt satisfied as I could still see the stains. For the more obvious ones, I tried clying, swirlX and then NXT 2.0, but shockingly, it stains were still there it I looked hard enough at an angle.

Anyone knows why I'm experiencing this? What puzzles me is that this never happened before. Before I gave it the detail 3 days ago - clayed, polished and wax, whenever it rained, the marks were easily removed even if i washed the car days later.

I'm so devastated. I though the wax was supposed to protect me car.. whats going on?

[Andrew C.]

Re: Water etch marks after 2 layers of waxing!

Well I can't answer what specifically caused your water spots, but I can tell you that it was by no means a side affect of claying, polishing, and waxing. Was your car parked under a tree or under a gutter by chance where the run-off from the rain could have landed on your car?

Rain water is typically very very soft and should not cause water spots because it doesn't have any minerals in it (the minerals in tap water are what cause water spots). There was something else that got on your car to cause these spots.

If they truly are in the surface of the paint, then waxing will not do anything to help remove them. You are going to have to use something like ultimate compound to get them out. Make sure you wax after you use the UC in that area to protect it again.

Sorry to see that you had such an unfortunate experience with the spotting, but maybe if you can figure out what was getting on your car, then you can prevent any further spotting in the future.

[triplezero]

Re: Water etch marks after 2 layers of waxing!

Well I can't answer what specifically caused your water spots, but I can tell you that it was by no means a side affect of claying, polishing, and waxing. Was your car parked under a tree or under a gutter by chance where the run-off from the rain could have landed on your car?

Rain water is typically very very soft and should not cause water spots because it doesn't have any minerals in it (the minerals in tap water are what cause water spots). There was something else that got on your car to cause these spots.

If they truly are in the surface of the paint, then waxing will not do anything to help remove them. You are going to have to use something like ultimate compound to get them out. Make sure you wax after you use the UC in that area to protect it again.

Sorry to see that you had such an unfortunate experience with the spotting, but maybe if you can figure out what was getting on your car, then you can prevent any further spotting in the future.

Thanks Andrew!

To answer your questions.. The car was not parked under any tree or gutter. Basically, nothing above the car at all, and I was pretty sure of it. You mentioned tap water had more minerals. Could it be because i used the garden hose to hose off my car after the rain, which is something that i used to do before i detailed the car but no super obvious water marks and etching before.

To be more precise, here is a timeline.

Sat 4pm - Rain
Sat 5pm - Hose down (but NOT wiped dry)
- Car parked outside, nothing above car and car was not moved -
Sunday 7am - Rained till noon (Car was NOT hosed down and NOT dried)
Sunday noon - Really hot sun till I went out to drive out at 3pm.
Sunday 3pm - Noticed the water marks.

Like i mentioned, i tried SwirlX and then waxed the area to protect it, it reduced the marks but still visible to the picky eye.

My suspicion is that the water on the car was "baked" under the very hot sun on the layer of the 1 day wax. This kinda "melted" or soften the wax which got diluted in the water droplets left on the car and then eventually dried up. In that process, the wax got soaked up by the water droplet and dries up, at the same time leaving a mark on the actually clear coat itself. In other words, the water mark shown in the picture is partially caused by the "stripping" of the wax layer. Just my hypothesis, but I'm still very curious if anyone has experienced this before.

[Poki]

Re: Water etch marks after 2 layers of waxing!

Not all rain water is equal. Somewhat depends on where you live. There is a lot of "acid rain" out there and pollutants in the air that are brought down by rain. I'm in southern Cal. and ANY water left standing on the car will spot it to some extent. The longer left on, the harder to remove. I think you would be better served by drying the car rather than rinsing it after a rain. However, make certain there is NO dust or dirt of anykind laying on the surface befor you wipe it. Would probably be best to rinse then dry. I HATE them water spots!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Water etch marks after 2 layers of waxing!

My suspicion is that the water on the car was "baked" under the very hot sun on the layer of the 1 day wax. This kinda "melted" or soften the wax which got diluted in the water droplets left on the car and then eventually dried up. In that process, the wax got soaked up by the water droplet and dries up, at the same time leaving a mark on the actually clear coat itself. In other words, the water mark shown in the picture is partially caused by the "stripping" of the wax layer. Just my hypothesis, but I'm still very curious if anyone has experienced this before.

While we tend to agree with the "baking in the sun" part of this, the rest of it is probably not an accurate description of what really happened here.......

Not all rain water is equal. Somewhat depends on where you live. There is a lot of "acid rain" out there and pollutants in the air that are brought down by rain. I'm in southern Cal. and ANY water left standing on the car will spot it to some extent. The longer left on, the harder to remove. I think you would be better served by drying the car rather than rinsing it after a rain. However, make certain there is NO dust or dirt of anykind laying on the surface befor you wipe it. Would probably be best to rinse then dry. I HATE them water spots!

This, combined with the "baking in the sun", is what most likely caused the water spotting triplezero experienced.

Obviously, in most basic form, a water spot is caused by the minerals and other components in the water that are left behind when the water evaporates. But exactly what those minerals and other components are, how concentrated they are, and what they are subject to (time and heat being the primary factors here) will play a huge role in the final outcome of the water spots. And today's rain may not present the same mix of "stuff" in the water that last month's rain did.

Some of the minerals and other components in the water can and will etch paint. Acid rain is notorious for this (ask anyone living in China, where acid rain is an enormous problem), but other things can cause problems too, especially when subjected to a lot of heat. Keep in mind that anything that can actually etch paint is going to get through any wax or sealant you've applied to the paint. Otherwise the wax or sealant would literally have to be stronger than the paint itself, and that is asking an awful lot from a liquid poured from a bottle and applied in a microscopically thin layer.

[triplezero]

Re: Water etch marks after 2 layers of waxing!

Not all rain water is equal. Somewhat depends on where you live. There is a lot of "acid rain" out there and pollutants in the air that are brought down by rain. I'm in southern Cal. and ANY water left standing on the car will spot it to some extent. The longer left on, the harder to remove. I think you would be better served by drying the car rather than rinsing it after a rain. However, make certain there is NO dust or dirt of anykind laying on the surface befor you wipe it. Would probably be best to rinse then dry. I HATE them water spots!

Yea, agree with you on the rain.

I'm not sure about how it is here in Brisbane. I rinsed it because where i live, it gets pretty dusty at times, and its summer now, with lots of pollents flying around, so I had to rinse it all off before drying the car.

I really hate the water spots, but I'm wondering why it wasnt a problem before. It essentially "ripped" off my wax and left its mark. Damm.

[Andrew C.]

Re: Water etch marks after 2 layers of waxing!

Who knows what exactly caused it but maybe if your tap water is somewhat hard, you rinsed the car and the following day's rain did not rinse it all off (or just the hard water sitting on your car before the next day's rain) and so there was still hard water on your car when the sun came out?

[Poki]

Re: Water etch marks after 2 layers of waxing!

ALL OF THE ABOVE!!! It really comes down to....ya have to get the water off the finish as soon as you can....period.

[triplezero]

Re: Water etch marks after 2 layers of waxing!

So are we saying... When it rains, it is better not to rinse at all than to rinse and not wipe dry, especially during a hot day?

In short, If i were to rinse it with tap water (in Brisbane, Australia. Anyone knows if its "hard"?), then I must wipe it dry? Water droplets from the tap under a hot sun is more damaging that water from the rain?.

[Andrew C.]

Re: Water etch marks after 2 layers of waxing!

It isn't good to let any water sit on your car under the hot sun. It is hard to say whether the tap or rain water is any worse to let sit. As pointed out earlier (and I made a mistake on it in my first post) there could be acid rain or you could have hard water. We don't know for sure if you have either (only way to tell would be by doing tests on the water or waiting to see if it spots haha) but as a general rule, it would be best to dry your car off before letting it sit and bake in the sun.

[Poki]

Re: Water etch marks after 2 layers of waxing!

Well said Andrew....that's the point I was trying to make!

[triplezero]

Re: Water etch marks after 2 layers of waxing!

It isn't good to let any water sit on your car under the hot sun. It is hard to say whether the tap or rain water is any worse to let sit. As pointed out earlier (and I made a mistake on it in my first post) there could be acid rain or you could have hard water. We don't know for sure if you have either (only way to tell would be by doing tests on the water or waiting to see if it spots haha) but as a general rule, it would be best to dry your car off before letting it sit and bake in the sun.

Hmm.. Thats a tricky situation. What if my car is left in an open carpark and i'm in a meeting for the whole day and there was a short shower and then a hot sun follows immediately.

I'm hoping it was the freak rain (didnt happen with rains before or before i double waxed the car with NXT 2.0) that was a little acid that caused the spots. Had water marks today after a quick rain today, though not as serious, maybe because i got to it before it fully dried off. 95% today's water marks were easily removed with a Ultimate quick wax.

Might try another wax the next time i detail and see it there is a difference.

[lamby44pod]

Re: Water etch marks after 2 layers of waxing!

I know this thread is old, but this is exactly what happened to me.

I have an 06 Saab 9-3 Aero that is black.

The Front end, hood and roof had all been repainted a month ago.
I washed it, used the clay bar on the areas that needed it, made sure it was spotless and then put on Liquid Glass. Then let it bake in the sun as directed.

This car was like a mirror, it looked amazing.

Then a couple days later, I drove it on a trip, it got bugs all over it so I just did a quick wash in my yard to get all the bugs off and then I was going to take it to Mikes Express Car Wash and get it washed really good.

The thing is, I too did not dry the car. I just washed it, rinsed it, then got ready to go to town and by the time I left, the water had dried in the sun.
I tried with just a wet finger to wipe it off and it wouldn't.

So then after Mikes washing it TWICE! It still had water spots!!

I tried clay bar. Nothing.
I tried Zymol Cleaner Wax. Nothing.

So now I have a super clean car that you can see water spots if you look at it just right. After hours and hours detailing this car, you can bet I am not a happy camper now.

So can I assume that trying the Vinegar and water trick will probably not work? I just detailed it again, so I don't want to try that right now.

Or is there something that can be done to get this out? Like a more abrasive compound, or maybe a detailing company? This just really ticks me off.

I too never would have thought that a freshly waxed or sealed paint could be damaged within an hour of letting water dry in the sun. Craziness!

[billd55]

Re: Water etch marks after 2 layers of waxing!

Wax again may be the problem. Since wax does not truly bond to the clear coat, nor does it truly harden. It is very easy for the minerals, or other things to be absorbed into
the wax itself. Applying more coats of wax will make the problem worse .

[tguil]

Re: Water etch marks after 2 layers of waxing!

Wax again may be the problem. Since wax does not truly bond to the clear coat, nor does it truly harden. It is very easy for the minerals, or other things to be absorbed into
the wax itself. Applying more coats of wax will make the problem worse .

Never heard of this in over 50 years of waxin'. Can you back this up?

By the way black is especially bad at getting water spots. The answer is the vinegar and water mix...if no etching has occurred. And yep, you have to wax again after using the vinegar and water mix. The only answer for etching is to use something that has abrasives in it.

Tom