How to achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a G110v2

[scott0999]

Re: How to achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a G110v2

thanks for posting this, lots of good info

couple questions

when first starting do you run the DA quickly across to spread the product out? or just run it slowly across from the start?

I noticed you said to apply just a couple drops to the pad once it seems to be out. how many times do you do this before cleaning the pad?

[Brad777]

Re: How to achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a G110v2

Oh, man... there's gonna be a lot of paint polishing dudes that appreciate the information listed in this thread. Nicely done!

This article proves to me (and should to you) that, regarding paint polishing, Todd gets it. He certainly knows how to use any machine to its full potential. Remember- Todd used the rotary for all defect removal and polishing duties at one time. So did I. A lot has changed, and now even a beginner can create some pretty spectacular finishes using only the random orbital, a foam pad, and one buffing liquid.

Keep in mind that this is not Meguiar's recommending M105 for use as a finishing polish. That being said, Todd and I (as well as many others) have had great success using M105 in the manner as described. If it fails to deliver a satisfactory result once in a while, we have no plan to blame Meguiar's for our desire to use M105 as a finishing polish!!!

There are several benefits that are created with pad priming, and Todd has pointed out two that are invaluable. Here are two more.


1. Most folks deduce that priming the pad at the onset of a polishing session is not a big deal. Think again!

Normally, most guys apply an X or O pattern of product to the pad, run the machine across the paint, and repeat. After two or three application cycles, the pad certainly looks primed (this statement assumes that enough product has been applied to fully coat the pad face in the first place).

Unless there is an overabundance of product being used, it is doubtful that the face has filled with buffing liquid (therefore mimicking the priming that would be achieved if done at the onset, as Todd has shown).

Further, a large group of people use a minimalistic approach, and use only four or five pea-sized dots of product to cut or polish with. In my opinion, (and obviously Todd's) this is a popular yet mechanically-inefficient approach.

Perhaps you're thinking, "Pad priming wastes product." Wrong! In my experience, I have found that it can extend the life of the pad during the polishing session as well as increase the working time per application of Meguiar's M105.

It may be tough to think of buffing liquid in this manner, but to understand the HUGE benefit of priming, you've got to keep in mind that the abrasives used in M105 are HARD. When packed tightly together (such as would be the case when priming), they can form a HARD BARRIER. This hard barrier can slow the ABSORPTION of the liquid ingredients used to make M105, effectively slowing liquid saturation of the pad. Anybody that has used a pad to the point of saturation knows that its ability to cut diminishes; the pad becomes only marginally resilient (liquid resides where air once did); the pad retains heat longer (liquid resides where air once did AGAIN), and; the added weight of the pad can throw the machine out of balance (like mud stuck to the inside of a car wheel).


Prime the pad as Todd as shown to minimize pad saturation and all associated effects.



2. Pad priming can extend the polishing cycle per application of M105.

If there are large areas of the pad available, M105 will eventually find its way into or onto those areas. I suppose this feeds into the theory that ample pad priming is achieved after a few application cycles, but there's no guarantee that there will be an even distribution of particles or liquid. The high speed motion of the machine can also pack abrasives together, so bridging of particles across several pad pores is not uncommon. This happens after the pad is primed, too, but at least we've filled in the pores to a large degree, and have thus created a pretty solid foundation for the loose particles and liquid to rest upon.


Inconsistently applied abrasives lead to inconsistent results.


Without priming, M105 seems to have a short working cycle- "It dries out fast", is a commonly seen comment. This is because the liquid ingredients of M105 soak into the foam pretty rapidly, while the abrasive particles attach to the membrane-like structure of the pad. So, without an inital priming, it seems as if M105 has "flashed off" or "dried out", when in fact, it has simply moved from the paint surface onto/into the pad.


Pad priming helps you avoid the false sense that M105 "dries too quickly".

Thanks to Todd for the write-up. That was very informational. Thanks to Kevin for emphasizing the points above...so true and beneficial to ending up with a great end result.

[rapport25]

Re: How to achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a G110v2

Great, a very detailed thread many thanks from the uk.

[jmakado]

Re: How to achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a G110v2

I see the future. Removing sanding marks with M205 and finishing with M105

[Mark McGuire]

Re: How to achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a G110v2

I used Todd's method this past weekend but with UC instead. Man, this will be the way I go from now on. The UC polished down to perfection. I used SwirlX after the UC on the hood and could tell no difference, went straight to 21. This will be my polishing method from now on. THANKS TODD!!

[TH0001]

Re: How to achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a G110v2

Thanks for the reply Todd. Much appreciated!

I'm using the Flex 3401 VRG for all my polishing duties. Usually the product just vanishes during my second sectional pass. Another problem I think I'm having is that the product I applied on the pad is drying and it becomes very hard... It also wrinkles the foam pad as well. I'm going to try and prime the pad more before starting my polishing work. Maybe I'm not priming the pad enough from the sound of it.

The product works great though! It removes the defects really quickly and despite the drying problem, I'm ecstatic on the results it produces. I'm not sure if I mentioned it but I spray a small amount of water on the panel and it seems to revive the product for another sectional pass.

I would try priming the pad more and perhaps consider reducing the speed of the machine a full number on the dial (from 6 to 5 or from 5 to 4). Also, M105 will cut effectively and polish nicely even if it appears to have left the surface, so-to-speak. Let your results be the biggest factor in judging how the product is preforming, at least IME.

Hey Todd, I don't know if this is too much to ask but by any chance ever thought of doing video tutorials. I'm amazed by your work and how you manage to pull it off, when a novice like me isn't getting these types of results, even after reading so many different threads and watching 40+videos, and all the meguiars tutorial videos (which are really short, and not in depth). I can't come close to what you pulled of when I'm using the same tools and products.

Thanks David. I would love (and plan) to shoot videos at some point. My schedule is slammed at the moment, so it next to impossible to find time to do so (and be a dad and a husband). I do appreciate the compliments though!

[David32]

Re: How to achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a G110v2

Hey Todd, I don't know if this is too much to ask but by any chance ever thought of doing video tutorials. I'm amazed by your work and how you manage to pull it off, when a novice like me isn't getting these types of results, even after reading so many different threads and watching 40+videos, and all the meguiars tutorial videos (which are really short, and not in depth). I can't come close to what you pulled of when I'm using the same tools and products.

[Marc08EX]

Re: How to achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a G110v2

Hi Macr, that makes complete sense. Are you applying M105 by a DA or a rotary polisher?

If you are using with a DA, then often times it best to judge the results you are getting as your polishing then looking for any film on the paint. Many times I have seen M105 continue to create amazing results while polishing across 'dry' paint, as long as the pad is still wet with product and has not become contaiminated.

The best judge is to polish to good light and inspect the finish as you work.

IF the product stops removing defects at the same rate, add a little more product and continue polishing (I would also clean the pad by brushing or blowing it out to be safe).

IF the product begins to leave micromarring, thoroughly clean out the pad. If cleaning doesn't work, switch to a fresh (but primed!) pad.

Thanks for the reply Todd. Much appreciated!

I'm using the Flex 3401 VRG for all my polishing duties. Usually the product just vanishes during my second sectional pass. Another problem I think I'm having is that the product I applied on the pad is drying and it becomes very hard... It also wrinkles the foam pad as well. I'm going to try and prime the pad more before starting my polishing work. Maybe I'm not priming the pad enough from the sound of it.

The product works great though! It removes the defects really quickly and despite the drying problem, I'm ecstatic on the results it produces. I'm not sure if I mentioned it but I spray a small amount of water on the panel and it seems to revive the product for another sectional pass.

[TH0001]

Re: How to achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a G110v2

Great info being shared once again! Ive watched your videos on the ferrari on youtube... You should do more videos if you have time! Thanks again

Thank you very much for the compliments!

[Still Learnin]

Re: How to achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a G110v2

Great info being shared once again! Ive watched your videos on the ferrari on youtube... You should do more videos if you have time! Thanks again

[TH0001]

Re: How to achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a G110v2

Hey Todd, what would you say regarding the issue of M105 drying up before finishing your buffing cycle per working area? I've never experienced M105 leave a slight film after doing 3-4 sectional passes. It usually dries up and literally goes away after the 2nd sectional pass.

Thnx.

Hi Macr, that makes complete sense. Are you applying M105 by a DA or a rotary polisher?

If you are using with a DA, then often times it best to judge the results you are getting as your polishing then looking for any film on the paint. Many times I have seen M105 continue to create amazing results while polishing across 'dry' paint, as long as the pad is still wet with product and has not become contaiminated.

The best judge is to polish to good light and inspect the finish as you work.

IF the product stops removing defects at the same rate, add a little more product and continue polishing (I would also clean the pad by brushing or blowing it out to be safe).

IF the product begins to leave micromarring, thoroughly clean out the pad. If cleaning doesn't work, switch to a fresh (but primed!) pad.

Oh, man... there's gonna be a lot of paint polishing dudes that appreciate the information listed in this thread. Nicely done!

This article proves to me (and should to you) that, regarding paint polishing, Todd gets it. He certainly knows how to use any machine to its full potential. Remember- Todd used the rotary for all defect removal and polishing duties at one time. So did I. A lot has changed, and now even a beginner can create some pretty spectacular finishes using only the random orbital, a foam pad, and one buffing liquid.

Keep in mind that this is not Meguiar's recommending M105 for use as a finishing polish. That being said, Todd and I (as well as many others) have had great success using M105 in the manner as described. If it fails to deliver a satisfactory result once in a while, we have no plan to blame Meguiar's for our desire to use M105 as a finishing polish!!!

There are several benefits that are created with pad priming, and Todd has pointed out two that are invaluable. Here are two more.


1. Most folks deduce that priming the pad at the onset of a polishing session is not a big deal. Think again!

Normally, most guys apply an X or O pattern of product to the pad, run the machine across the paint, and repeat. After two or three application cycles, the pad certainly looks primed (this statement assumes that enough product has been applied to fully coat the pad face in the first place).

Unless there is an overabundance of product being used, it is doubtful that the face has filled with buffing liquid (therefore mimicking the priming that would be achieved if done at the onset, as Todd has shown).

Further, a large group of people use a minimalistic approach, and use only four or five pea-sized dots of product to cut or polish with. In my opinion, (and obviously Todd's) this is a popular yet mechanically-inefficient approach.

Perhaps you're thinking, "Pad priming wastes product." Wrong! In my experience, I have found that it can extend the life of the pad during the polishing session as well as increase the working time per application of Meguiar's M105.

It may be tough to think of buffing liquid in this manner, but to understand the HUGE benefit of priming, you've got to keep in mind that the abrasives used in M105 are HARD. When packed tightly together (such as would be the case when priming), they can form a HARD BARRIER. This hard barrier can slow the ABSORPTION of the liquid ingredients used to make M105, effectively slowing liquid saturation of the pad. Anybody that has used a pad to the point of saturation knows that its ability to cut diminishes; the pad becomes only marginally resilient (liquid resides where air once did); the pad retains heat longer (liquid resides where air once did AGAIN), and; the added weight of the pad can throw the machine out of balance (like mud stuck to the inside of a car wheel).


Prime the pad as Todd as shown to minimize pad saturation and all associated effects.



2. Pad priming can extend the polishing cycle per application of M105.

If there are large areas of the pad available, M105 will eventually find its way into or onto those areas. I suppose this feeds into the theory that ample pad priming is achieved after a few application cycles, but there's no guarantee that there will be an even distribution of particles or liquid. The high speed motion of the machine can also pack abrasives together, so bridging of particles across several pad pores is not uncommon. This happens after the pad is primed, too, but at least we've filled in the pores to a large degree, and have thus created a pretty solid foundation for the loose particles and liquid to rest upon.


Inconsistently applied abrasives lead to inconsistent results.


Without priming, M105 seems to have a short working cycle- "It dries out fast", is a commonly seen comment. This is because the liquid ingredients of M105 soak into the foam pretty rapidly, while the abrasive particles attach to the membrane-like structure of the pad. So, without an inital priming, it seems as if M105 has "flashed off" or "dried out", when in fact, it has simply moved from the paint surface onto/into the pad.


Pad priming helps you avoid the false sense that M105 "dries too quickly".

To give you an idea of the type of person Kevin is, he called me and asked if it would be okay if he added some information to my post: He didn't want to over step some boundaries as some people are sensitive to such (and understandably).

What Kevin fails to mention is that he is the master and I am the student, so THANK YOU Kevin for adding more information that is extremely relevant and for teaching us how to use this product with these machines better!

Thanks for a great write up Todd. One of the biggest lessons I've learned from posts like these is the need to be patient and adaptable when honing one's detailing technique.

Too often I've seen posts on the forums and been approached by local detailers who have said that a product hasn't worked for them. In most cases they've used the product as per the instructions but haven't gone the extra step of adjusting the instructions slightly to match their unique situation. It is this ability to adapt that separates great detailers from good detailers.

I 100% agree with your post. This why I always liked Mike Phillip's statement, "Find something YOU like and use it often." If you get excellent or better results with a particular product is isn't necessarily because product A is better then product B, it is because YOU are better with product A then product B.

Great post!

Todd your an animal!!!

Thanks Joe!!!!

[TH0001]

Re: How to achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a G110v2

Very informative post, nice work!

Thanks for the great write-up, Todd!

They're always very informative and I take something away from them every time.

Dang Todd, I can't wait to get home and dial this in. Thanks a lot for going in such depth and taking time wtire this out.

Thank you for the write up ...I have used the cutting pad on my PC with m105 on my truck with great results, but am too scared to try it on my black mustang

Nice write up, Todd.

It's always interesting to see how people "think outside the box" when using Meguiar's products and are able to adapt them to unique processes and techniques, achieve beautiful results in the process.

Wow great information Todd!!! Appreciate the effort in writing this up and sharing the information!!!

Sort of an 'upgraded' version of M86......

But DA compatible

Great info. I really like the recommendation on priming the pad - definitely going to include this step.

Thanks again!

Thanks Todd, I like how you broke everything down and explained each process in detail. You put a lot of work into writing that article

Really great stuff Todd! It's true professionals like you and Kevin and the many others here that make this forum awesome. We never stop learning.

Great write up Todd!

Very informative write up, Todd. Thanks.

Incredible write-up! I really like knowing the mechanics of something and why something does what it does. I guess that explains the physics and education major.

Anyway, thank you for taking the time to explain, in depth, the process of using M105 as a cutting compound and a finishing polish.

Wow, awesome write up.

Thanks Todd (and Kevin)

Fantastic. I love learning about this stuff!! Thank you.

i am kinda upset i am going out of town this weekend now lol. im really wanting to get my car done all purdy like

Thanks for the writeup Todd. Loving this technique.

I can say, I'll be priming my pad the "correct" way from now on, that's for sure! I'll admit, I've always done the X or O thing...

Yes, I've been a "X" man up until now too.

...With fine results mind you, but if I can improve my technique, then why not!

Todd,

A tremendous writeup for those just starting out and for seasoned veterans.

Thanks Todd! Very Informative.

Guys thank you so much for the kind and appreciative posts! I really means a lot to me that you would take the time to type your replies! I always try to go back and personally thank everybody but this time you guys have me defeated. It would take an hour or more, so a big THANK YOU!

[Andrew C.]

Re: How to achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a G110v2

Thanks Todd! Very Informative.

[Superior Shine]

Re: How to achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a G110v2

Todd your an animal!!!

[roushstage2]

Re: How to achieve a flawless, mirror finish using Meguiar's M105 and a G110v2

I just tried this priming method today with M80. I primed a bit too much, indicated by the sling everywhere, but it [M80] seemed to "work" better and longer.