Another pass with M205

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Another pass with M205

Michael: How does one know if the paint is "hard" or "soft"? I started detailing as a hobby last year, by hand. Got tired of that real quick. I am waiting for the delivery of the Meg's polisher next week and would like to get it right this year. I have a 2004 Jag and a 2008 Jeep Patriot. Both cars have good paint, minimal swirls. I suspect the Jag has "harder" paint than the Jeep.

Thoughts?

Paint "hardness" doesn't really have all that much to do with "scratch resistance"; when we talk about paint hardness we're talking about how easy it is to buff out, which is a completely different process than merely scratching the paint. Many people think that because their car gets swirls easily that the paint is soft, but the two don't always go hand in hand. C6 Corvettes are notorious for being very challenging to buff out, but you can still load them up with swirls pretty easily.

Determining if a paint is hard or soft comes down to experience, really. How it reacts to a given input tells you a lot, but you have to be able to differentiate between that were there when you started, and those that came to be because of your actions on the paint. If buffing the paint with a mild approach doesn't alter the appearance at all, then you may be dealing with hard paint. But if you buff it and it's still full of marring, but now the marring looks totally different, it could be delicate paint that is reacting badly to your input. Sometimes trading one type of marring for another in the early stages is just part of the process, but sometimes it doesn't have to be.

I have had a couple of customers who have used the 105/205 combination and have told me they weren't too happy with the results. The problem in their case was that they were too much in a hurry to knock out the swirls and other minor defects. When I mentioned to them to start out with the 205 they told me they did but it "took too long" to remove the swirls. After a small demonstration with 205 & a W8006 pad on the PC on a "Small" section at a time they were amazed and couldn't believe why they weren't getting the same results on their car. It takes patience and some simple technique without the overkill.

Great story, Jesse. Proper paint polishing can't be rushed, you really need to finesse the paint and understand how it's responding. If you really pay attention, the paint will tell you what it needs.

[Brook]

Re: Another pass with M205

"If you really pay attention, the paint will tell you what it needs."

And that's the difficult part for me, at least.

[Alexandre]

Re: Another pass with M205

Bluher, your post appeared just as I was writing mine. Can you describe how you use 83/205 on your Honda? That would be helpful.

I worked by hand with 205, used it on the entire car, the 83 was only used in a few spots, and as Michael told me, 205 was used right after to give that extra shine, or even remove haze caused by 83. I did work for minutes with 205, and if needed I reapplied it on the area.

[Alexandre]

Re: Another pass with M205

If I remember correctly from my extensive reading that 83/205 are very similar in many aspects the major difference is the 83 breaks down while the 205 does not. As for using the 105 I will not complain about the result I got from it, but I will be trying to just go with the method posted earlier, 205/finishing pad.

And for the record any good butcher keeps his knifes sharper than a razor blade, so imagine the closeness of the shave you could get

It is not the same. 105 is the most stronger product in the professional line of Meguiars products. The fact that it uses SMAT and does not break down makes it even dangerous when not used wisely.

As your paint is very very soft and you are using a D/A, it may be a very unnecessary combination, because, even if you are not "damaging" the paint, you are removing much more clear coat than you need to and still not getting the expected results.

If you do a little research you ll find that 83 is called "dual action", it starts as a compound and breaks down and down, becoming sort of a finishing polisher. Whatever, since I used 83 by hand, I had not enough strong to work it breaking it down enough to becomes that "finishing polisher", that is why I followed by 205. If I were you I' d just start by using the D/A with a W8007 and 205, and work the are for minutes, even for a second time. For the next option I' d go with 83 or Swirl X with a finishing pad.

and yes, that is the problem, you do not need a strong and super sharp bade to do what what a razor blade could,

[hondastrtracr]

Re: Another pass with M205

Michael cleared it up a few posts ago with this response:

The use of M105 wasn't necessarily a "bad" idea, but it may have been much more aggressive than what was required. We have no doubts that you got great results using M105, but for just light swirls on soft paint you most likely didn't need it.

When talking about how much paint is being removed for simple swirl correction and whether one product was more aggressive than what might have been needed for the job, remember that we aren't talking about removing a lot of paint, and M105 could likely be used numerous times over many, many years without worry of unduly degrading the clear coat. Still, why use something that aggressive if you don't need to? On soft paints you often get results every bit as quickly with a less aggressive product, and often there is no need to follow with a finer product in order to refine the surface even further. If you could accomplish the same task with just M205, then what is there to gain from using M105 and then following with M205? You've spent more money on product, spent more time doing the job, and have really nothing better to show for it.

You can liken the process to hammering nails. If you're doing furniture upholstery you would select something like a 5oz tack hammer to finish off the edges of the covering. When hammering nails into lumber a 20oz claw hammer would be the tool of choice. Driving a railroad spike might call for a 16lb sledge hammer. Can you use that 16lb sledge to put the finishing tacks in the furniture you've just reupholstered? Well, yes, you could use it, but why would you? If you're thinking about using it because you can drive that tack home with a single whack, you're going about it all wrong.

[Alexandre]

Re: Another pass with M205

haha I spend nights here reading all Michael' s posts, he is like master Yoda of Detailing!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Another pass with M205

"If you really pay attention, the paint will tell you what it needs."

And that's the difficult part for me, at least.

You can't rush experience