Is better paint or clear coat on the way?

[TOGWT]

Re: Is better paint or clear coat on the way?

Polybutyleneterphtalate panels (Smart Car)

Daplen ED230HP replaces polycarbonate polybutyleneterphtalate (PCPBT) that traditionally serves in body panels, such as bumpers, side panels, tailgates, and hoods. Smart's pioneering approach to using polypropylene for full body panels is a major step forward for the automotive industry and its suppliers, Daplen ED230HP helped Smart tighten its production process while raising the environmental, aesthetic, and safety performance of its vehicle.

The TPO is an in-mass colored compound. Colours are blended into the compound to provide a ready-made base coat. As a result, post-assembly painting steps are reduced with only a painted clear coat layer needed.

[StadiumDetail]

Re: Is better paint or clear coat on the way?

Smart cars have colored pastic pieces for all of thier panels, and from what I've seen on her's (she lives in cali, so that's not much) it seems there is just a clear over the plastic rather than 2-steping the paint. I could see this being the new method adopted before stronger paints, Think of a colored alum. panel or even carbon fiber that if it gets keyed only need a new shot of clear rather than a whole color matching process. Cheaper for the consumer and the manuf.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Is better paint or clear coat on the way?

That sounds like paint that has not fully cross-linked or a self-healing paint surface that is being detailed in a hot environment. A hard rain will induce 'hail' like indentations.

This further shows the problems with this paint system - it supposedly requires a fair amount of heat in order for it to self heal, which left many people in northern climates complaining that they would never experience this so called "benefit" of the paint. Conversely, if a warm surface becomes overly soft and touch sensitive, how on earth do you care for it in the southwest where temperatures will remain in the 85 to 95 degree range for months on end? Most people don't have climate controlled garages to work in, so how does one cool down the paint further than we normally would by simply parking in the shade for a period of time? And in the deep south where it can rain hard on a hot day, can you imagine the frustration of seeing, no matter how temporary, small indentations from mere rain drops??? Apparently these and others are among the reasons that use of this type of paint system was recently dropped by a major manufacturer.

What would you advise with this extreme 'soft' paint?

Buy a different car?



Seriously, without laying hands on one it's tough to say. Having worked in the past on an early '80s Ferrari 512BBi with original black single stage paint that was, by far, the most delicate paint I have personally ever touched, it's tricky at best. On that car even a light application of M07 by hand with a foam or microfiber applicator would haze the paint. We struggled with product/pad/speed combinations until settling on something that worked reasonably well, but the final finish didn't really show itself until after applying NXT 2.0 very lightly and letting it dry fully before removal. We spent almost as much time just sorting out a process as we did correcting the paint!

[TOGWT]

Re: Is better paint or clear coat on the way?

Fine and well, but we've seen guys stating that just wiping off the hazed wax caused marring of the paint.

That sounds like paint that has not fully cross-linked or a self-healing paint surface that is being detailed in a hot environment. A hard rain will induce 'hail' like indentations.

What would you advise with this extreme 'soft' paint?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Is better paint or clear coat on the way?

[We've seen some write ups of very talented detailers struggling with these paint systems when trying to correct defects (hey, what happened to the self healing aspect then????) as the paint seemed to be incredibly, ridiculously soft.]

CliffNotes® Version

Use Menzerna SIP with a Lake County (L) Orange pad, follow with Menzerna PO85 RD White (LC) foam pad.

Fine and well, but we've seen guys stating that just wiping off the hazed wax caused marring of the paint.

[Bert31]

Re: Is better paint or clear coat on the way?

Five to eight years ago or so General Electric's plastics division was working on making body panel out of a durable plastic which was made with the paint in the plastic. In other words, the panel would look just like a regular body panel but if you scratched the paint, you didn't need to repaint, just sand and buff the surface to level the scratch out and you were done. I have heard nothing about this in the past few years so I am guessing the long term testing did not work our as they were hoping and dropped the project. Too bad, just imagine, a body panel you could not burn with a rotary.

[ColonelCash]

Re: Is better paint or clear coat on the way?

Nissan GT-R has this self-healing paint from what I recall. Not sure if it was an option or a standard feature.

[TOGWT]

Re: Is better paint or clear coat on the way?

[We've seen some write ups of very talented detailers struggling with these paint systems when trying to correct defects (hey, what happened to the self healing aspect then????) as the paint seemed to be incredibly, ridiculously soft.]

CliffNotes® Version

Use Menzerna SIP with a Lake County (L) Orange pad, follow with Menzerna PO85 RD White (LC) foam pad.

[SHYNEMAN123]

Re: Is better paint or clear coat on the way?

There has been some talk of someware down the road of the auto mfg going to wraps over paint, like what NACAR is doing but who knows.

[SHYNEMAN123]

Re: Is better paint or clear coat on the way?

whats self healing paint??

It's a softer clear designed to absorbe impact and reduce chipping.
Ford is marketing it on the New SHO

[RaskyR1]

Re: Is better paint or clear coat on the way?

I ran across this info a couple years ago....

CLEARCOAT
Basecoat/clearcoat systems have been around for quite a long time. Many European cars have been painted like this since the early 80's. However the technology has changed dramatically.


It all starts with what the manufacturer wants. A car company may want their vehicle to have the absolute best gloss you can possibly achieve. They also will want the surface to be resistant to scratches and marring. They also will want the paint surface to be very resistant to atmospheric pollution, such as acid rain, industrial fallout, tree sap, bird droppings, stone chipping, etc. In a nutshell they want the surface to be bulletproof. Unfortunately, for the manufacturer they will almost certainly have to give up something to achieve something else. For example, if they want a great gloss they will have to give up a little durability. If their concern is durability, the gloss may not be quite as rich. This is a double-edged sword. Some paint manufacturers say that the technology is available to produce an almost bulletproof clearcoat but paint costs have skyrocketed. Most car manufacturers in trying to keep costs down will opt to play a game of give and take with the clearcoat surface.

Source

http://www.autodetailingnetwork.com/detail-articles-kleen-car/2009/7/30/oem-auto-paint-finishes.html

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Is better paint or clear coat on the way?

One major auto maker has experimented with self healing paint very recently, allegedly a nanoparticulate system that would reflow and fill fine scratches when heat was applied. The claim was that even leaving the car out in the sun on a hot day would do the trick.

We've seen some write ups of very talented detailers struggling with these paint systems when trying to correct defects (hey, what happened to the self healing aspect then????) as the paint seemed to be incredibly, ridiculously soft.

We hear that this auto maker has since abandoned this system and is no longer spraying cars with it at the factory.

[TOGWT]

Re: Is better paint or clear coat on the way?

• Self healing Paint - With 2K(2 component paint + activator) PUR Clear Coat, the researchers at Bayer Material Science Coatings Automotive have developed a coating comprising the polyisocyanate Desmodur® and the polyol Desmophen, which is especially resistant and can "heal" small scratches.

The paint top surface is a hard film over a softer layer of substrate - a light scratch will 'dent' or break the skin, but it will then return to its original form. Polyurethanes are thermoplastic and the applied heat helps it to re-flow and repair surface marring.

• Scratch Guard - is a coating that is applied over the clear coat of your vehicles paint. The paint will fix itself after it had experienced a scratch, provided it has not penetrated the Scratch Guard coat; this coating is heat-activated. The Scratch Guard basically contains a highly elastic resin that repairs itself over time when it is exposed to a heat source such as the sun.

[TOGWT]

Re: Is better paint or clear coat on the way?

Hard and soft are both relative terms; you can scratch the hard surface of a vehicles paint with a soft towel by the application of enough pressure. Both pressure and mechanical stress are defined as force per unit area. These two forces are the subject of Newton's third law of motion; the law of reciprocal
actions [: to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction]

How can a hard clear coat be so easily scratched?

Force acts through a body that has a surface area; if the surface area is really small while maintaining an equal force, the pressure becomes astronomical and the object under pressure capable of penetrating the surface of an otherwise tough material. That’s why a micro fine thread that is twice as fine as silk and a 100 times finer than a human hair, in an otherwise soft towel will scratch your paint. And the same reason a mosquito can penetrate a rhino hide with its proboscis (stinger).

This can best be summed up as: your car’s paint finish, though it may feel hard, is actually rather soft. Nearly everything else that comes in contact with it, though it may feel soft, is harder by comparison and will scratch it with enough pressure – sometimes just the slightest of pressure.

[yalerd]

Re: Is better paint or clear coat on the way?

Nothing lasts forever, so in some point you'll need to polish and protect the surface of the car.

Weather is crazy, your car finish is under "attack" 24/7 and the environment is harsh so I would think this way "Thanks God I know about detailing and polishing and taking care of my vehicle"