Advice on Detailing

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Advice on Detailing

In my experience, M205 works fine with a DA. Of course a rotary will provide more cutting power with M205, but that doesn't mean you can't get significant benefit from #205 with a DA.

RamAirV1

Agree 100%. See my clarification on this very topic a few posts back in this thread. M205 on a D/A is great stuff, but it's not the ONLY product that returns great results.

[Murr1525]

Re: Advice on Detailing

I have silver and I see a significant difference after using Swirl X. If you have light to moderate swirls and you use Swirl X, even by hand, you will definitely see a difference.
RamAirV1

That was meant to say using a pure polish after SwirlX... maybe part of the confusion.

[RamAirV1]

Re: Advice on Detailing

Unless your car is black/dark, or single stage, you likely wont see much change after SwirlX.

I have silver and I see a significant difference after using Swirl X. If you have light to moderate swirls and you use Swirl X, even by hand, you will definitely see a difference.

From my personal experience, reinforced by the facts outlined to me by the MOL administrator, you will not maximize the benefits of M205 unless you are using a rotary. If you are applying your products by hand or by the DA, SwirlX is the more ideal choice. I now mainly reserve M205 for jeweling with the rotary and a finishing pad. As an ultra finishing polish, M205 is simply too expensive to be used as a swirl remover with a polishing pad, personally.



I would consider SwirlX in place of Meguiar's Deep Crystal Step 1 and Step 2 products.

In my experience, M205 works fine with a DA. Of course a rotary will provide more cutting power with M205, but that doesn't mean you can't get significant benefit from #205 with a DA.

RamAirV1

[Simon777]

Re: Advice on Detailing

Tim,

I agree with you wholeheartedly. All I am trying to say that unless you have real, practical hands on experience, and can back up your statements with logical explanations, advice should not be given on a topic. I have seen many times on our forum and others, misinformation being posted and people using products and processes incorrectly, inevitably resulting in damage to finishes, and unhappy consumers.

To the OP, I didn't mean to hi-jack your thread, I just want you to get the absolute best accurate advice that you can.

Andy M.
MOL Moderator

I don't mind, it just show that you all really do care about what you do. Personally, I like to get a lot of opinions and see what the majority think before doing something. Checking the credibility of the advice is always important too, like Tim said.

I went ahead and started and will be posting before/after pictures in the "Show Off Your Latest Detail Work" section under the name "1999 Chrysler 300m" soon if anyone wants to see how I did.

Thanks for everyone's help.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Advice on Detailing

Hey not to get off topic but LOL How do we get you to put a class or classes on in New York. I have i nice size 3 bedroom house with a finished basement and your welcome to stay here , So what do you say take a trip out here pal. Show us how it really gets done

We're starting to look at ways to conduct classes in other parts of the country, hopefully next year even. Nothing is set in stone at this point, but we would love to do it.

And your kind offer is very much appreciated! Just be careful what you wish for!!!!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Advice on Detailing

The only reason that I have been able to garner to prefer M105+M205 over UC and SwirlX is if you have fresh repaint. Obviously, I am talking about amateurs.

- Vikas

M105/M205 are body shop safe products designed to be used via rotary buffer, although they are fine when used with a D/A or even by hand. Body shops need a product that can provide either the cut of M105 or the finish of M205 when used via rotary, but they also must NOT contain any ingredients that could cause problems in an environment where paint is being sprayed. Most consumers don't need the overall cut of M105 nor do they require such body shop safe formulations. In fact, a more user friendly product is preferable, so Ultimate Compound and SwirlX are excellent choices for consumer use. Easier to find, less expensive to purchase, and potentially a bit easier to use as well.

[sontakke]

Re: Advice on Detailing

The only reason that I have been able to garner to prefer M105+M205 over UC and SwirlX is if you have fresh repaint. Obviously, I am talking about amateurs.

- Vikas

[Andy M.]

Re: Advice on Detailing

Hey Andy,

This is another good example where information may be read by newcomers and taken at face value as the detailing gospel when in fact it is based on supposition. On any forum you will find comments where someone has "read" information about a product or item but has no real actual practical experience in using a said product, and in this case, on many different paints. So while Murr1525 (Matt) was only trying to help, and I am not coming down on you Matt as I am sure many appreciate your help ( ), comments on products really need to come from experience from actually using them in various situations. Having used the products on various paints, of differing colors, types (SS or BC/CC) fresh or old paint, hard or soft, under various environmental conditions, then an accurate subjective analysis can be made.

I remember one time, can not remember who it was, but the individual was arguing with me on how to use/apply M105 properly when in fact he/she had not even used the product before! Their argument was based on what they read elsewhere. So if that information which they read was incorrect, which it was, then their post is accidentally misleading as I am sure no malice was intended. So my advice to everyone reading information in forums, do research the topics thoroughly. Then make your decision!

The Internet is a great thing though it has become a victim of its own success.



Tim

Tim,

I agree with you wholeheartedly. All I am trying to say that unless you have real, practical hands on experience, and can back up your statements with logical explanations, advice should not be given on a topic. I have seen many times on our forum and others, misinformation being posted and people using products and processes incorrectly, inevitably resulting in damage to finishes, and unhappy consumers.

To the OP, I didn't mean to hi-jack your thread, I just want you to get the absolute best accurate advice that you can.

Andy M.
MOL Moderator

[Sudz On The Run]

Re: Advice on Detailing

Hey not to get off topic but LOL How do we get you to put a class or classes on in New York. I have i nice size 3 bedroom house with a finished basement and your welcome to stay here , So what do you say take a trip out here pal. Show us how it really gets done

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Advice on Detailing

From my personal experience, reinforced by the facts outlined to me by the MOL administrator, you will not maximize the benefits of M205 unless you are using a rotary. If you are applying your products by hand or by the DA, SwirlX is the more ideal choice. I now mainly reserve M205 for jeweling with the rotary and a finishing pad. As an ultra finishing polish, M205 is simply too expensive to be used as a swirl remover with a polishing pad, personally.

Hang on a second...... we were discussing the overall cutting ability of M205 vs SwirlX, not necessarily "maximizing the benefits", however that might be defined. While it's true that M205 was designed primarily as a rotary applied follow up to M105 it still does a wonderful job when used with a D/A to generate a very high degree of clarity to the finish. Our discussion centered on winter prep, total cut, and which product made more sense in that setting. While both would work, for your particular case SwirlX run at a lower speed on the D/A seemed to make the most sense.

Honestly, for the majority of people who are just looking to eliminate swirls from a daily driver, SwirlX or Ultimate Compound (depending on hardness of paint, level of defect and method of application) are probably the smart choice over M105 and M205. Both are much easier to source, they're less expensive, are based on similar SMAT technology, and in some ways can even be easier to use. Certainly the buffing cycle of Ultimate Compound tends to be much longer than that of M105 on a D/A, again depending on a variety of factors.

3) SwirlX (1 pass)
4) Step 2 DC Polish (1 pass)

I really wanted to use meguiar's M205 in between steps 3 and 4, but I've already checked 4 auto stores and no one has it. How much am I missing out on by not using M205?

Honestly, you probably won't gain much by adding the additional step of M205 between these two. Heck, you may not even need SwirlX as a follow up to Ultimate Compound. Should you decide to do so, try running it at a slower speed and with a bit less pressure, and work it for a longer cycle than you did the UC. That should bring you very close to what M205 would do on it's own anyway. But you're getting to a point where skill, technique, how critical your eye is, what your expectations are, what the overall condition of the paint is.......... you're almost splitting hairs here.

[3Fitty]

Re: Advice on Detailing

Tim,

Very good point and something we should all be concerned about. I think those (like me) who are far from being pros have to learn that often things said on detailing forums are just repeated phrases from "what you've read" rather than "what you've done". (I'm not saying that is the case here - but it serves well to make note of it).

I remember when working with D151 and having questions, I ran inside to read Tim's review which was based on real life working experience + x amount of years of professional experience by Tim. In that regard, there is real value in reading such reviews.

I think one of the things the non-pros have to be careful of (God knows I'm guilty of this), is offering advice which might not be based on real world experience or might even be based on "real world INexperience".

Just food for thought.

[Tim Lingor]

Re: Advice on Detailing

Unless your car is black/dark, or single stage, you likely wont see much change after SwirlX.

Not really sure about this Mat. Do you have an example of this?

Andy

My point was based on SwirlX being a cleaner/polish. As with other cleaner/polishes, they will leave some polishing oils on the surface. Some people may notice a difference on light colors, some may not. But there are oils to keep the paint healthy.

However, not as much as a pure polish of course, and on a dark car, or very neglected car, the extra oils of the pure polish can be noticable.

Hey Andy,

This is another good example where information may be read by newcomers and taken at face value as the detailing gospel when in fact it is based on supposition. On any forum you will find comments where someone has "read" information about a product or item but has no real actual practical experience in using a said product, and in this case, on many different paints. So while Murr1525 (Matt) was only trying to help, and I am not coming down on you Matt as I am sure many appreciate your help ( ), comments on products really need to come from experience from actually using them in various situations. Having used the products on various paints, of differing colors, types (SS or BC/CC) fresh or old paint, hard or soft, under various environmental conditions, then an accurate subjective analysis can be made.

I remember one time, can not remember who it was, but the individual was arguing with me on how to use/apply M105 properly when in fact he/she had not even used the product before! Their argument was based on what they read elsewhere. So if that information which they read was incorrect, which it was, then their post is accidentally misleading as I am sure no malice was intended. So my advice to everyone reading information in forums, do research the topics thoroughly. Then make your decision!

The Internet is a great thing though it has become a victim of its own success.



Tim

[Simon777]

Re: Advice on Detailing

My point was based on SwirlX being a cleaner/polish. As with other cleaner/polishes, they will leave some polishing oils on the surface. Some people may notice a difference on light colors, some may not. But there are oils to keep the paint healthy.

However, not as much as a pure polish of course, and on a dark car, or very neglected car, the extra oils of the pure polish can be noticable.

I didn't know it was a polish too, but thanks for all yours and everyone elses help.

[Murr1525]

Re: Advice on Detailing

My point was based on SwirlX being a cleaner/polish. As with other cleaner/polishes, they will leave some polishing oils on the surface. Some people may notice a difference on light colors, some may not. But there are oils to keep the paint healthy.

However, not as much as a pure polish of course, and on a dark car, or very neglected car, the extra oils of the pure polish can be noticable.

[the_invisible]

Re: Advice on Detailing

The 3M headlight restoration drill kit is for severely oxidized or scratched headlights. Also I am afraid that a drill capable of only 850rpm may not be capable of removing the scratches adequately.

Simple maintenance with Deep Crystal step 1, SwirlX, or ScratchX will restore the headlight to their clarity.