The right way to use products

[Simon777]

All the bottles I use say don't let dry, except of course for the wax, but I just apply the product to the entire car and immediatly buff it off with a rotary buffer. By this time, the product has dried. It does work pretty well, but I'm just wondering if there is a downside to doing this?

I use:
ultimate compound
scratch X 2.0
Meguiar's Paint Cleaner
DC2 Polish
M205
NXT 2.0

I always thought the stripping compound would get extra cutting power from being dry.

[Simon777]

Re: The right way to use products

Oh, and I use a 10 inch rotary buffer with cloth pads, I know its a bit large, but it does the job.

[akimel]

Re: The right way to use products

Work the polish or compound panel by panel. Remove it immediately, while still wet. You do not achieve any benefit allowing it to dry; you only make it more difficult to remove the stuff.

The only Meguiar's products you want to allow to dry are the waxes (and M05, the pure polish exception).

Meguiar's Compounds, Paint Cleaners, Cleaner/Polishes and Pure Polishes don't need to dry before removing them. The idea is to apply them, work them against and into the finish and then remove them. Only Meguiar's Waxes need to dry out of all the paint care products in the Meguiar's Line of products.

I think you will find it best to follow the instructions. The manufacturer usually knows the best way to use its products. Also see this article: Which products need to dry before removing?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: The right way to use products

Do you have a 10" rotary buffer or orbital buffer? There's a huge difference between the two.

This is an example of an orbital buffer:


This is an example of a rotary buffer:


The orbital is a very low power tool that, on modern clear coat finishes, is usually only good for spreading wax. It tends to bog down completely when any pressure is applied since the motor lacks any real torque, and the 10" work area spreads out what little power it does have.

The rotary is a high speed (variable), direct drive tool that is used by body shops and professional detailers to remove defects as extreme as wet sanding marks. It's a fantastic tool that can do pretty amazing in the right hands, but in the wrong hands it can do a lot of damage very quickly.

Between these to is the dual action polisher, like the Meguiar's G110 or Porter Cable 7424:



This tool falls somewhere between the other two. It sort of incorporates the safety of the orbital with the work capability of the rotary. The action moves the pad in both a circular and oscillating motion so less heat is generated than with a rotary, but much more power is available than with an orbital. The learning curve on this machine is not steep at all, and it can correct a wide range of defects quite easily, and very safely.

Regardless which machine you use, you never want to buff to what's called a "dry buff". A dry buff is when all the lubrication has evaporated or flashed off and you're left with just a dry and sometimes gritty powder than can end up scouring the surface. That or you end up just cutting the paint with the pad, which is not a good thing either. Your overall cutting ability/power comes from the combination of liquid, pad, machine, speed and pressure. But the lubrication provided by the still wet product is critical in this mix. Further, the abrasives in the liquid are only able to do their work when being worked against the paint. Letting them sit there and dry out accomplishes nothing, except creating problems when you try to remove the product.

Other liquids, like pure polishes, don't do any cutting or cleaning but rather just introduce oils back into the paint so as to boost gloss and prevent the paint from drying out. These also should just be worked against the paint, more gently than a cleaner or compound, and wiped off while still wet. It is also generally accepted that these products are being applied to a surface that has been fully prepped with a cleaner and that all (or nearly all) defects have been removed. Because of this you want to apply them in a very gentle manner, usually with a finishing pad and the machine set to a fairly low speed, and using only light pressure.

Waxes and sealants are the only products you should allow to dry on the surface. In fact, they need to dry in order for the bonding of product to paint to take place - what you wipe off, the hazed residue, is essentially waste. This is part of the reason we always recommend applying a wax or sealant in a thin, uniform coat. Regardless how much you apply, only so much is going to bond to the paint. The rest is going to be wiped off. Apply the wax too heavy and it takes longer to dry and removal of the excess product is more difficult. Apply too thin and you risk missing spots. Remove too soon, before the wax has fully dried, and you risk smearing or streaking.

[Simon777]

Re: The right way to use products

I have a 10 inch orbital buffer then. When using a stripping compound or polish, I usually coat the entire car and then use the orbital buffer to take it off. It never is completely dry, as the underside of the compound is still wet, but the top is usually dry. It has never been difficult removing the compound as I constantly change the cotton pads on the buffer.

I just want to know how much more effective it is to rub it into the paint while the compound is completely wet.

I have no help when I detail my car so its just easier on me to apply a product to the whole car and remove it all at once. I realize the intructions say not to let it dry, but I'm just wondering what all I am losing by letting it dry.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: The right way to use products

It sounds as if you're sort of spreading the product all over the vehicle, much as you would with a wax, and then coming back and just taking it off. If that's the case, then you are completely missing out on what any paint cleaner can really do for you.

What you should be doing is applying some product to your cotton pad, just an "X" through the middle of it, and then work that product for a couple of minutes in an area no larger than 2' x 2'. You'll see the product become very thin and translucent on the surface, but still wet if you were to swipe your finger through it. That's when it's time to set the buffer down and wipe the area clean with a microfiber towel. Now you can add more product to the pad and repeat the process in an adjoining section, working around the vehicle section by section. With the machine you have don't be afraid to put some speed and pressure into it, and move the machine slowly over the surface of the paint. The abrasives in products such as SwirlX and Ultimate Compound need some time to work against the paint to level it. If you move the machine too quickly, or don't work the product long enough, you'll get very limited results - if the paint is hard or the defects severe, you may even see almost no progress if you rush it. Simply spreading product out over the whole car and then removing it accomplishes nothing with a paint cleaner - they only do their job when being worked against the paint.

Of course, when the time comes to apply your wax you can spread a thin coat over the whole vehicle and then wait for it to dry fully before coming back to remove it. At that point if you want to remove the hazed wax with the buffer and a clean bonnet, go for it.

The following is taken from this article on proper use of a D/A polisher like the G110 but it also applies when using an orbital:

Move the polisher in different directions
You also want to go in at least two different directions, for example, from where you're standing, side to side, then front to back. You can also move the polisher in a kitty/corner fashion for complete, thorough and uniform cleaning action.



Only work a small area at a time
This will vary according to the shape, curve or body line of the panel you are polishing but for example on a large flat panel, you want to stay around a 12" to 18" squared area. The point being, don't try to work to large of an area all at once or you won't remove the defects equally everywhere.

Overlap your sections
When you move on to a new section, overlap into the old section for a uniform end results.


If you're applying a pure polish, or a polish/wax or a pure wax, then you can polish larger areas at a time, use a faster arm speed, use less pressure and make fewer passes because when applying these types of products you're not trying to remove paint, merely do a good job of working the product in and leaving behind a thin even coating.

This does not apply when using a cleaner/wax like ColorX on neglected paint because in this situation you're again trying to remove paint.

The point of the cleaning step is to remove the defects. Because the G100's polishing action is gentle and therefore safe, it takes time to remove small particles of paint in an effort to remove a defect, so concentrate hard at doing your best work when doing the cleaning step, don't skimp out during the step and try to rush it, your results will reflect that you didn't do a good job the first time.

[Simon777]

Re: The right way to use products

Thank you so much for that advice Michael, I'll definately do it that way next time. These pictures really helped me understand what I was doing wrong.

One question though. I realize I need to work a section at a time and work in the stripping compound, but what technique do i use with polish?

Can I apply it like a wax and just cover the entire car, then work it in a bit as I remove with the orbital? Or would I need to work it in really well like the stripping compound one section at a time and not let it dry?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: The right way to use products

A pure polish is worked similar to the way you work a compound or paint cleaner, only with less pressure and over a slightly larger area - maybe double the size at the most. But you still do not want it to dry, so work it gently for a bit and wipe off while still wet. Again, work around the car in sections, applying and removing while wet.

The only thing you will apply to the entire vehicle in one pass and let dry is the wax and/or sealant.

[Simon777]

Re: The right way to use products

A pure polish is worked similar to the way you work a compound or paint cleaner, only with less pressure and over a slightly larger area - maybe double the size at the most. But you still do not want it to dry, so work it gently for a bit and wipe off while still wet. Again, work around the car in sections, applying and removing while wet.

The only thing you will apply to the entire vehicle in one pass and let dry is the wax and/or sealant.

Got it. Thank you so much for all your help Michael.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: The right way to use products

Happy to help, Simon, that's what we're here for.