Making my first stock up purchase but not sure what to get pad wise for a PC 7424XP.

[T3hlulzkiller]

Hey there everyone! I'm making my first large purchase of supplies and I'm not sure what to buy in terms of pads for the PC7424XP. I have a few questions regarding what would be overall better in terms of pad's.

1. Are Meguiar's 2.0 pads updated and better than the Diamond pads?
2. If I am looking for optimal paint correction I should obviously go with a smaller pad such as a 4" LC CCS, which LC CCS pads are optimal for the least micromarring but still able to correct?
3. I recently read a post that described, when using LC CCS orange pad on a DA the oscilating action caused pretty heavy damage to the paint instead of correcting it; the poster then demonstrated how correcting with a less aggressive method gave a quality shine and removed the damage. Is this always the case? do cutting pads on a DA always damage paint like that?
4. I keep hearing about Meguiar's cutting pads and the "old and new" version of them. Can anyone tell me the difference? from what I've read it SEEMS like the old version could cause the above problem I mentioned in question 3, however, the new version can be used with a DA without problem?
5. What are the consequences of Meg's pads being 7", is this too large to correct harder paint properly?

Here is a quick draft for a pad shopping list that I could throw together for practicality...Does this look good?

1x 3.5" backing plate
1x meg's w68DA backing plate
2x LC CCS white pad
2x Meg's 2.0 yellow
2x Meg's 2.0 Black
2x Meg's 2.0 Burgundy
2x LC CCS [not sure which color]
2x LC CCS [not sure which color]


Thanks a ton!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Making my first stock up purchase but not sure what to get pad wise for a PC 7424

Looks as though you have put together a very extensive group of pads, which should cover just about anything you care to throw at them.

Let's look at your questions in the order asked:

1. Are Meguiar's 2.0 pads updated and better than the Diamond pads? Our diamond pads (WDFP7 polishing & WDFF7 finishing) were designed specifically for use with M86 So1o. The Soft Buff 2.0 essentially updates our W7006, W8006 and W9006 Soft Buff pads. The yellow polishing pads use the exact same foam between the two versions, but the black finishing pad addresses a sometime skipping issue of the W9006 pad when used with a rotary buffer only. The construction of the burgundy cutting pad has changed with the W7207 version in that it holds its shape/cutting ability longer.
2. If I am looking for optimal paint correction I should obviously go with a smaller pad such as a 4" LC CCS, which LC CCS pads are optimal for the least micromarring but still able to correct? A lot of this is going to depend on the paint you're working on. While it's true that a 4" pad on a D/A will provide more cut (which is not always the same as "more correction") than an equivalent 6" or 7" pad will, you may not need it. On the other hand, if you have severe defects in very hard paint, you may have no other choice than to use an aggressive pad to remove the defects, only to find that pad has hazed the paint and you need to follow with a less aggressive pad. That's neither good nor bad, but just a potential situation depending on the paint. Yet, in most cases, we are able to do a very high level of correction using just M105 on a 7" W8207 pad (again, the specific paint is going to dictate time required here).
3. I recently read a post that described, when using LC CCS orange pad on a DA the oscilating action caused pretty heavy damage to the paint instead of correcting it; the poster then demonstrated how correcting with a less aggressive method gave a quality shine and removed the damage. Is this always the case? do cutting pads on a DA always damage paint like that? Did the author of that post mention specifically that he/she was unable to achieve correction without having to resort to this pad? We would caution against using any pad that could cause "pretty heavy damage", but once again - and perhaps more specifically to your point - the paint itself is going to play an important role. So, no, cutting pads on a D/A do not always damage paint in this way. But they can mar the paint and leave it looking hazy. Again, we wouldn't consider this to be a bad thing and the light hazing can generally be removed quite easily with a less aggressive pad. Here is a case where a test spot or two is very important - how much marring/hazing are you willing to put up with? Are you better off with two passes of something like M105 on a polishing pad to remove the original defects while leaving a beautiful finish, or should you take the aggressive approach with a cutting pad first and then "clean up" after with a polishing pad? You're still doing two passes, but is the cutting pad approach "too" aggressive? It may well be.
4. I keep hearing about Meguiar's cutting pads and the "old and new" version of them. Can anyone tell me the difference? from what I've read it SEEMS like the old version could cause the above problem I mentioned in question 3, however, the new version can be used with a DA without problem? The W7006 cutting pad would often haze paint when used with a D/A, no doubt about it. Then again, we never actually recommended it's use with a D/A. Of course, that doesn't mean people didn't do some experimentation, but in the end the finish was usually not as pristine as they'd like, so a follow up with a polishing pad was usually needed. We still don't recommend using the new W7207 on a D/A, but of course there are some people who still do. And, yes, there is some evidence starting to show up here and there indicating the finish can be very nice indeed with this pad. But, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the paint is going to ultimately dictate this.
5. What are the consequences of Meg's pads being 7", is this too large to correct harder paint properly? With what liquid? We still see excellent correction using the 7" W8207 polishing pad when used with M105, even on hard paints. The introduction of M105 has changed a lot of people's minds about what they can and can't accomplish with a D/A. Yes, it may take longer to achieve the same result compared to using a 4" pad, but the safety margin is much greater with a larger pad. A surprising amount of heat can be generated with a 4" pad on a D/A, especially if you're running at higher speeds and/or using a lot of pressure. This can catch you off guard when working on non-ferrous substrates as they dissipate heat differently than steel or aluminum substrates do, and the paint used on non-ferrous substrates generally has a flex agent mixed into it. Because of these variables, paint on bumper covers can react very differently to paint on steel body panels - a sudden heat build up in a concentrated area can quickly lead to wrinkling of the paint. As long as you know this going in, and you pay close attention to surface temps, you can successfully remove even severe defects with a D/A. Many people run into this issue, however, because they've read countless times that you can't damage paint with a D/A. But that safety level generally assumes use of a 6" to 7" pad running on speed 5 with moderate pressure. It's amazing how much things can change when you run those 4" pads at a higher speed with heavy pressure, especially over non-ferrous substrates. That's not intended to scare you, or to say that 4" pads are bad (because they most certainly are NOT bad). It's simply intended to make you aware of the (sometimes vast) difference between using a "traditional" 6" to 7" pad versus a smaller 4" pad.

Now, after all that, what are you working on, what have you used in the past, and what sort of results have you been getting?

[T3hlulzkiller]

Re: Making my first stock up purchase but not sure what to get pad wise for a PC 7424

Looks as though you have put together a very extensive group of pads, which should cover just about anything you care to throw at them.

Let's look at your questions in the order asked:

1. Are Meguiar's 2.0 pads updated and better than the Diamond pads? Our diamond pads (WDFP7 polishing & WDFF7 finishing) were designed specifically for use with M86 So1o. The Soft Buff 2.0 essentially updates our W7006, W8006 and W9006 Soft Buff pads. The yellow polishing pads use the exact same foam between the two versions, but the black finishing pad addresses a sometime skipping issue of the W9006 pad when used with a rotary buffer only. The construction of the burgundy cutting pad has changed with the W7207 version in that it holds its shape/cutting ability longer.
2. If I am looking for optimal paint correction I should obviously go with a smaller pad such as a 4" LC CCS, which LC CCS pads are optimal for the least micromarring but still able to correct? A lot of this is going to depend on the paint you're working on. While it's true that a 4" pad on a D/A will provide more cut (which is not always the same as "more correction") than an equivalent 6" or 7" pad will, you may not need it. On the other hand, if you have severe defects in very hard paint, you may have no other choice than to use an aggressive pad to remove the defects, only to find that pad has hazed the paint and you need to follow with a less aggressive pad. That's neither good nor bad, but just a potential situation depending on the paint. Yet, in most cases, we are able to do a very high level of correction using just M105 on a 7" W8207 pad (again, the specific paint is going to dictate time required here).
3. I recently read a post that described, when using LC CCS orange pad on a DA the oscilating action caused pretty heavy damage to the paint instead of correcting it; the poster then demonstrated how correcting with a less aggressive method gave a quality shine and removed the damage. Is this always the case? do cutting pads on a DA always damage paint like that? Did the author of that post mention specifically that he/she was unable to achieve correction without having to resort to this pad? We would caution against using any pad that could cause "pretty heavy damage", but once again - and perhaps more specifically to your point - the paint itself is going to play an important role. So, no, cutting pads on a D/A do not always damage paint in this way. But they can mar the paint and leave it looking hazy. Again, we wouldn't consider this to be a bad thing and the light hazing can generally be removed quite easily with a less aggressive pad. Here is a case where a test spot or two is very important - how much marring/hazing are you willing to put up with? Are you better off with two passes of something like M105 on a polishing pad to remove the original defects while leaving a beautiful finish, or should you take the aggressive approach with a cutting pad first and then "clean up" after with a polishing pad? You're still doing two passes, but is the cutting pad approach "too" aggressive? It may well be.
4. I keep hearing about Meguiar's cutting pads and the "old and new" version of them. Can anyone tell me the difference? from what I've read it SEEMS like the old version could cause the above problem I mentioned in question 3, however, the new version can be used with a DA without problem? The W7006 cutting pad would often haze paint when used with a D/A, no doubt about it. Then again, we never actually recommended it's use with a D/A. Of course, that doesn't mean people didn't do some experimentation, but in the end the finish was usually not as pristine as they'd like, so a follow up with a polishing pad was usually needed. We still don't recommend using the new W7207 on a D/A, but of course there are some people who still do. And, yes, there is some evidence starting to show up here and there indicating the finish can be very nice indeed with this pad. But, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the paint is going to ultimately dictate this.
5. What are the consequences of Meg's pads being 7", is this too large to correct harder paint properly? With what liquid? We still see excellent correction using the 7" W8207 polishing pad when used with M105, even on hard paints. The introduction of M105 has changed a lot of people's minds about what they can and can't accomplish with a D/A. Yes, it may take longer to achieve the same result compared to using a 4" pad, but the safety margin is much greater with a larger pad. A surprising amount of heat can be generated with a 4" pad on a D/A, especially if you're running at higher speeds and/or using a lot of pressure. This can catch you off guard when working on non-ferrous substrates as they dissipate heat differently than steel or aluminum substrates do, and the paint used on non-ferrous substrates generally has a flex agent mixed into it. Because of these variables, paint on bumper covers can react very differently to paint on steel body panels - a sudden heat build up in a concentrated area can quickly lead to wrinkling of the paint. As long as you know this going in, and you pay close attention to surface temps, you can successfully remove even severe defects with a D/A. Many people run into this issue, however, because they've read countless times that you can't damage paint with a D/A. But that safety level generally assumes use of a 6" to 7" pad running on speed 5 with moderate pressure. It's amazing how much things can change when you run those 4" pads at a higher speed with heavy pressure, especially over non-ferrous substrates. That's not intended to scare you, or to say that 4" pads are bad (because they most certainly are NOT bad). It's simply intended to make you aware of the (sometimes vast) difference between using a "traditional" 6" to 7" pad versus a smaller 4" pad.

Now, after all that, what are you working on, what have you used in the past, and what sort of results have you been getting?

Wow! Thank you for the AWESOME answers..this is why I only buy meguiar's :thumbs:!
Believe it or not, I've used nothing in the past; I'm just starting off detailing professionally and I figured I'd put my best foot forward to read up and soak in as much information as humanly possible prior to my first order. I haven't used a rotary yet (but am going to buy one and practice until I'm perfect!) and for now the DA will have to do. I'll be mostly working on Hondas at the start for the 8th gen civic crew around westchester county NY and hopefully become more reknown once I have a few notches in my belt. I know Honda uses water based paint and it is highly known for its softness, so I would be hard pressed to ever need a cutting pad to begin with, IMo, but I'd like to cover all my bases for future applications as well. My neighbor may have me do his Audi, Lexus, and Jaguar and knowing Jag is a ford proprietary company means I may have some hard clearcoat coming my way!

Thanks for all the answers, You've cleared a significant amount up for me!

[TH0001]

Re: Making my first stock up purchase but not sure what to get pad wise for a PC 7424

Looks as though you have put together a very extensive group of pads, which should cover just about anything you care to throw at them.

Let's look at your questions in the order asked:

1. Are Meguiar's 2.0 pads updated and better than the Diamond pads? Our diamond pads (WDFP7 polishing & WDFF7 finishing) were designed specifically for use with M86 So1o. The Soft Buff 2.0 essentially updates our W7006, W8006 and W9006 Soft Buff pads. The yellow polishing pads use the exact same foam between the two versions, but the black finishing pad addresses a sometime skipping issue of the W9006 pad when used with a rotary buffer only. The construction of the burgundy cutting pad has changed with the W7207 version in that it holds its shape/cutting ability longer.
2. If I am looking for optimal paint correction I should obviously go with a smaller pad such as a 4" LC CCS, which LC CCS pads are optimal for the least micromarring but still able to correct? A lot of this is going to depend on the paint you're working on. While it's true that a 4" pad on a D/A will provide more cut (which is not always the same as "more correction") than an equivalent 6" or 7" pad will, you may not need it. On the other hand, if you have severe defects in very hard paint, you may have no other choice than to use an aggressive pad to remove the defects, only to find that pad has hazed the paint and you need to follow with a less aggressive pad. That's neither good nor bad, but just a potential situation depending on the paint. Yet, in most cases, we are able to do a very high level of correction using just M105 on a 7" W8207 pad (again, the specific paint is going to dictate time required here).
3. I recently read a post that described, when using LC CCS orange pad on a DA the oscilating action caused pretty heavy damage to the paint instead of correcting it; the poster then demonstrated how correcting with a less aggressive method gave a quality shine and removed the damage. Is this always the case? do cutting pads on a DA always damage paint like that? Did the author of that post mention specifically that he/she was unable to achieve correction without having to resort to this pad? We would caution against using any pad that could cause "pretty heavy damage", but once again - and perhaps more specifically to your point - the paint itself is going to play an important role. So, no, cutting pads on a D/A do not always damage paint in this way. But they can mar the paint and leave it looking hazy. Again, we wouldn't consider this to be a bad thing and the light hazing can generally be removed quite easily with a less aggressive pad. Here is a case where a test spot or two is very important - how much marring/hazing are you willing to put up with? Are you better off with two passes of something like M105 on a polishing pad to remove the original defects while leaving a beautiful finish, or should you take the aggressive approach with a cutting pad first and then "clean up" after with a polishing pad? You're still doing two passes, but is the cutting pad approach "too" aggressive? It may well be.
4. I keep hearing about Meguiar's cutting pads and the "old and new" version of them. Can anyone tell me the difference? from what I've read it SEEMS like the old version could cause the above problem I mentioned in question 3, however, the new version can be used with a DA without problem? The W7006 cutting pad would often haze paint when used with a D/A, no doubt about it. Then again, we never actually recommended it's use with a D/A. Of course, that doesn't mean people didn't do some experimentation, but in the end the finish was usually not as pristine as they'd like, so a follow up with a polishing pad was usually needed. We still don't recommend using the new W7207 on a D/A, but of course there are some people who still do. And, yes, there is some evidence starting to show up here and there indicating the finish can be very nice indeed with this pad. But, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the paint is going to ultimately dictate this.
5. What are the consequences of Meg's pads being 7", is this too large to correct harder paint properly? With what liquid? We still see excellent correction using the 7" W8207 polishing pad when used with M105, even on hard paints. The introduction of M105 has changed a lot of people's minds about what they can and can't accomplish with a D/A. Yes, it may take longer to achieve the same result compared to using a 4" pad, but the safety margin is much greater with a larger pad. A surprising amount of heat can be generated with a 4" pad on a D/A, especially if you're running at higher speeds and/or using a lot of pressure. This can catch you off guard when working on non-ferrous substrates as they dissipate heat differently than steel or aluminum substrates do, and the paint used on non-ferrous substrates generally has a flex agent mixed into it. Because of these variables, paint on bumper covers can react very differently to paint on steel body panels - a sudden heat build up in a concentrated area can quickly lead to wrinkling of the paint. As long as you know this going in, and you pay close attention to surface temps, you can successfully remove even severe defects with a D/A. Many people run into this issue, however, because they've read countless times that you can't damage paint with a D/A. But that safety level generally assumes use of a 6" to 7" pad running on speed 5 with moderate pressure. It's amazing how much things can change when you run those 4" pads at a higher speed with heavy pressure, especially over non-ferrous substrates. That's not intended to scare you, or to say that 4" pads are bad (because they most certainly are NOT bad). It's simply intended to make you aware of the (sometimes vast) difference between using a "traditional" 6" to 7" pad versus a smaller 4" pad.

Now, after all that, what are you working on, what have you used in the past, and what sort of results have you been getting?

Wow, great response!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Making my first stock up purchase but not sure what to get pad wise for a PC 7424

Jaguar may have recently been owned by Ford (now owned by TATA Motors in India) but that really doesn't have any bearing on how hard the paint may or may not be. Jags are built in a proprietary factory in the UK so there isn't necessarily any commonality between the paint used there and the paint used in any other Ford owned facility. From recent experience we're inclined to think the Audi may prove to have the hardest paint of the bunch, but even our own recent history doesn't guarantee that will be the case.

But the number of Hondas you're going to be exposed to will most likely put you in front of very soft paint. Soft paint can be just as frustrating as hard paint, especially when you're just getting started with this whole thing. We recently had a new Mazda Miata in the Meguiar's Garage and the owner was very frustrated because he just couldn't get a deep, clear finish in the black paint. Everything he threw at it left marring in the paint, but he confused that with him not being able to correct all the existing defects. Even M105 on a W8207 polishing pad wasn't getting it. We had him step back and take a very gentle approach instead - M205 on a W9207 finishing pad, speed 4 on the G110 and only light to moderate pressure with a fairly long buffing cycle. He was very skeptical at first but gave it a shot anyway - and was shocked at how beautiful the paint looked after taking this gentle approach.

Hondas are notorious for soft paint, and the couple examples of the Honda Fit we've seen recently were crazy soft. M66 or D151 on a finishing pad was all that was needed to remove all the swirls and leave a clear, crisp finish. Anything else (including ScratchX 2.0 by hand!) left marring on the surface. Odds are very slim that you'll be busting out those 4" pads when working on a Honda. Slim, not zero. No sweeping generalizations about paint hardness here!



And Todd, thanks!

[T3hlulzkiller]

Re: Making my first stock up purchase but not sure what to get pad wise for a PC 7424

I see where you are coming from. I placed my order as of last night at like...1 AM lol! I've decided to go with a happy medium and get a collection of LC CCS 5.5" pads as well as Megiuar's 2.0 7" pads and the w68DA to go along with that.

I am utterly surprised that it only took 151 on a finishing pad! that is incredibly soft! I will deffinetly fall back on the "least aggressive method" saying first, for sure! I will be doing most of my practicing and experimentation on two older japanese cars to begin with, a black 2001 Honda Accord EX-l (This is my mothers car and boy the amount of paint damage is just unreasonably horrid...) and a 2001 silver toyota tacoma pickup truck which has seen years of black dirt farm days, so lots and lots of swirl marks are to be had.

I also went ahead and ordered pretty much the full lineup of Meg's detailing supplies in either 32oz or gallons. I keep hearing so much about APC+ I can't wait to try it! Hell, I can't wait to try everything!

now here are a few more questions I have:

-In terms of interior detailing what do you find best for really rejuvinating carpeting? Should I immediately look into the LGM?

-Which car wash do you specifically like the most out of the Meguiar's line of washes?

-Are there any MEguiar's workshops? As in, I live on the other coast (NY) and may be interested in the near future to attend meguiar's instructionary classes; however, flying all that way may be a little much for one thursday/saturday night. Are there lke 5 day crash courses or the such?

Thanks!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Making my first stock up purchase but not sure what to get pad wise for a PC 7424

People seem to have mixed feelings about the LGM, but for home or light duty use it really isn't a bad little machine. Definitely pick up some Quik Out though, it is an amazing product for carpet and upholstery cleaning.

Gold Class Car Wash Shampoo & Conditioner is a great choice all around for washing, but D11101 Shampoo Plus is an excellent alternative.

As for Meguiar's workshops on the East Coast, I'm afraid that isn't something that we have available at this time. We are looking into a few options that might help us change this, but nothing is certain at this point in time. We'll definitely keep everyone posted should this change in the future.

[T3hlulzkiller]

Re: Making my first stock up purchase but not sure what to get pad wise for a PC 7424

People seem to have mixed feelings about the LGM, but for home or light duty use it really isn't a bad little machine. Definitely pick up some Quik Out though, it is an amazing product for carpet and upholstery cleaning.

Gold Class Car Wash Shampoo & Conditioner is a great choice all around for washing, but D11101 Shampoo Plus is an excellent alternative.

As for Meguiar's workshops on the East Coast, I'm afraid that isn't something that we have available at this time. We are looking into a few options that might help us change this, but nothing is certain at this point in time. We'll definitely keep everyone posted should this change in the future.

Thanks for the response! I myself would be extremely interested in joining up with a workshop closer by - I'm sure many other people would be as well if you had opened up perhaps a "Detailers school"