NXT 2.0: What *kind* of paint protection?

[wwally]

Having clayed, Swirl-X'ed and NXT 2.0'd my car a few days ago, I am having a problem I've had in the past when trying "polymer waxes." While they bead water, they do not seem to protect the paint well from other substances, particularly bird droppings. I am not even talking about big piles of bird droppings, but the little light brown drops and oval squiggles. Two days after my procedure, I took the car out for the evening and today I saw tiny droppings on the hood. After removing them with UQD, I saw that there are fine lines outlining where the dropping was and a slight stain or cloudiness in the shape of the dropping. Local use of NXT did not remove them, but I could remove them with two or three hand applications of Swirl-X. I then had to put more NXT over the spots. When using the simple Cleaner Wax, I get much better protection from these problems--the car seems immune to them for a month or two. They will just wash away with no evidence left in the finish. This is a black, clear-coat finish.

So I know that the NXT 2.0 beads water, but the protection from bird stains seems much inferior to the Cleaner Wax. Anyone have thoughts on this issue?

[Markus Kleis]

Re: NXT 2.0: What *kind* of paint protection?

Interesting... I have not noticed this issue on my vehicles or client vehicles for the spots you described. Conventional wisdom says that a polymer sealant should be superior to a heavy carnauba wax.

Those spots wash off with normal washing or rinseless wash techniques for me.

As for bird etchings, depending on the particular dropping- you aren't going to be able to do much to stop that damage regardless of the wax/sealant brand. Your best bet is to remove it ASAP.

[the_invisible]

Re: NXT 2.0: What *kind* of paint protection?

How well bird droppings wash off the paint surface with water depends on the contents of the droppings, as well as the temperature and UV rays the dropping is cooked under. Obviously, under higher temperatures and UV rays the droping would harden much quicker.

Other factors such as orange peel and paint hardness can dictate how easily the dropping is washed off. Orange peel can trap the droppings more easily due to the rough edges. Also, droppings tend to etch into softer paint easily than on harder paint.

Of course, different types of products can also have different effects as to how well droppings is washed off. But you must consider other factors as well.

[wwally]

Re: NXT 2.0: What *kind* of paint protection?

I should also add theat the NXT seems unusally sensitive to leaving visual abrasion (visible, very fine scratching) compared to the Cleaner Wax--someone causually rubbing clothing against the car, etc. It's as if the NXT is not hardening, or something like that. Or perhaps that the NXT coating is thinner than the CW?

[wwally]

Re: NXT 2.0: What *kind* of paint protection?

So, let me phrase my question differently and perhaps one of the Meguiars people can step in on this: What does it mean to say that the NXT provides (1) longer lasting or (2) better protection than the cleaner wax? More water beading? Less etching of paint from X, X or X? Why is water beading important? Does it prevent water spotting? Is it an indicator for any other kind of protection? Is there any way to protect against bird droppings? Etc., etc.

[Eddie6th]

Re: NXT 2.0: What *kind* of paint protection?

Interesting... I have not noticed this issue on my vehicles or client vehicles for the spots you described. Conventional wisdom says that a polymer sealant should be superior to a heavy carnauba wax.

Those spots wash off with normal washing or rinseless wash techniques for me.

As for bird etchings, depending on the particular dropping- you aren't going to be able to do much to stop that damage regardless of the wax/sealant brand. Your best bet is to remove it ASAP.

I agree Mark.I have found my car to have less markings from birds,using NXTTW2,than I did previousley using DC3.

There must be some other factor...including the strength of the droppings.

[akimel]

Re: NXT 2.0: What *kind* of paint protection?

Surely we need to admit that a layer of wax/sealant simply does not provide much protection from powerful environmental crud, including bird droppings. A layer of wax/sealant is better than nothing, but it's still microscopically thin. In the words of Mike Phillips:

Keep in mind, anything that lands on your paint that is strong enough or corrosive enough to harm the paint will also harm the micron thin layer of protection. For example a bird dropping. If a bird dropping lands on your freshly waxed car, the uric acid in the bird dropping will eat past any coating of wax or paint sealant on the market. The only sure fire way to protect the paint is to put the car in a garage and close the door.

I have learned this lesson the hard way on my car. The clearcoat is much harder than any wax/sealant that we might apply. If bird dropping can eat into the clearcoat in a matter of minutes, how long do you think it will take for it to eat through a layer of wax/sealant that is only 25 nanometers thick (consider how thin this truly is--a sheet of paper is 100,000 nanometers thick!)?

I'm not saying that we should not be asking these questions or that we shouldn't apply protectives to our cars; but I think we also need to be realistic and practical.

[cardriver]

Re: NXT 2.0: What *kind* of paint protection?

So far, NXT has done a great job at protecting against bird gunk and other contaminants. I let some large nuggets sit on my paint for at least 16 days with no ill effects. (Hey, I was busy with life).
It might also be due to the fact that in my routine washes (I wash ~3x monthly), I finish up with my maintenance spray wax...Turtle 1-Step Wax & Dry--The only thing I like/use from them, heh)...

If anything, NXT doesn't bead water very well for me. Doesn't bead the water brilliantly like you see in Youtube videos.

But at least it does its job at protecting against the real enemy--the uric acid!

[wwally]

Re: NXT 2.0: What *kind* of paint protection?

So my feeling from the responses is that there actually isn't much difference between products in the *protection* provided the paint. Some waxes or sealants might provide a visual shine for longer. Having spent the past few weeks reading the forum (and dealing with this new black car) I lost perspective. Several years ago a Meguiars advisor told me this on the phone--he said they were all good for two or three months on a garaged car used regularly. So I think I'm going to drop the Swirl-X/NXT routine and go back to the much easier Cleaner Wax (with an occasional claying) that I've been using for 25 years. The appearance it produces is just fine for me--glossier than the NXT-- and I want to enjoy this car rather than become a slave to it. A forum like this is very useful, but it can fuel an obsession too. Not to mention selling a lot of products.

Thanks folks.

[akimel]

Re: NXT 2.0: What *kind* of paint protection?

Wally, there's a lot to be said for the regular use of Cleaner Wax. See Mosca's article on cleaner wax. Detailing should not be a chore. Keep it simple and keep it fun.

"Find something you like and use it often!"

[wwally]

Re: NXT 2.0: What *kind* of paint protection?

Wally, there's a lot to be said for the regular use of Cleaner Wax. See Mosca's article on cleaner wax. Detailing should not be a chore. Keep it simple and keep it fun.

"Find something you like and use it often!"

Akimel,

Mosca's experience is very similar to mine. Using the 8006 pad on a Flex DA, I can do the entire car in an hour or hour and a half. Done monthly, the paint hardly deteriorates to the point that it needs another cleaner or polish. If the paint seems very clean, I use a 9006 and figure I'm taking of a little less paint. If I want to do a really fast job, I do the horizontal panels and side panels only above the character line--forty five minutes. Thanks for pointing me to this. I've been doing this for at least 25 years and the cars always look immaculate.

Since I've got the car all NXT'd up, I'm going to tape the hood right down the center and redo one half in Cleaner Wax. I'll try to photograph the hood in various lights and let it go a couple of months and post the pics. The hood seems particularly difficult because it catches a lot of road debris and because of the engine heat. I'll also photograph the beading during washes. I still don't know what significance beading has. I haven't seen a car of mine not bead since maybe 1970, regardless of what I used on it.

Wally

[zaidgreat]

Re: NXT 2.0: What *kind* of paint protection?

Maybe you can try getting a proper surface prep.... Make the paint surface as clean and as smooth as possible
That way, less contaminants tend to lay or etch to the paint ... LSPs are just a very small percentage of our final results. Condition and quality of the paintwork plus proper surface prep determines the longevity of the protection. LSPs to me are just subtle variances

Just an opinion from my limited experience.

[wwally]

Re: NXT 2.0: What *kind* of paint protection?

Maybe you can try getting a proper surface prep.... Make the paint surface as clean and as smooth as possible
That way, less contaminants tend to lay or etch to the paint ... LSPs are just a very small percentage of our final results. Condition and quality of the paintwork plus proper surface prep determines the longevity of the protection. LSPs to me are just subtle variances

Just an opinion from my limited experience.

These surfaces were clean to start with but I clayed them and did a very careful polish with Swirl-X with the Flex DA. So they were quite clean. I do not understand how this would reduce etching of the surface. Part of the reason I see this etching is that the surface is so immaculate. The slightest tiny scratch becomes visible in the right light because there is nothing around it.

[zaidgreat]

Re: NXT 2.0: What *kind* of paint protection?

These surfaces were clean to start with but I clayed them and did a very careful polish with Swirl-X with the Flex DA. So they were quite clean. I do not understand how this would reduce etching of the surface. Part of the reason I see this etching is that the surface is so immaculate. The slightest tiny scratch becomes visible in the right light because there is nothing around it.

Your quest for surface perfection is actually causing these...... Just like most of us here...... There is absolutely nothing wrong with what you are doing. Is your car daily driven? Or a garage queen?

[Jossy92]

Re: NXT 2.0: What *kind* of paint protection?

Well, I am gong to add cleaner wax as a least aggressive approach to stubborn bird or other staining.

I never thought of always using a cleaner wax because I thought it was removing clear coat. Not sure how much clear coat is removed and/or if that allows droppings to penetrate more deeply.

I wonder if your clear-coat may now be "different" than most. Thinner, allowing the beauty of the paint to come through. Somewhere between a single stage and and 2 stage. But you have skill and attention to detail based on years of experience where that works for you.

I like sheeting because I have a problem remembering to keep a waffle weave in my car to wipe down the water spots after a brief rain. I have found that the water spots magnify sunlight and etch the paint when left to dry too long. NXT sheeting really helps.

Maybe in the summer when droppings are more of an issue, M26 has more of the properties of your cleaner-wax without the cleaner, and I will use it, reserving cleaner-wax for spot cleaning when needed.

I am in the newbie trail and error stage right now, and I am going to try the above, so, no advice intended. Would not have posted here were it not Detailing 101.