paint correction on a mazda 3 - need help quick please!

[aznives3]

So i've done my 2 hondas (06 civic and 04 s2000), full paint corrections using megs 83/80 combo and both came out looking great, awesome level of correction for my perfectionist attitude. However, both my cars were in fairly good shape so those were a nice break into detailing.

now though, i've got my gf's 05 mazda 3. Its "winning blue", and its absolutely hammered. Swirls everywhere you look, rids everywhere etc etc.

Here's what i've got in my arsenal

Flex 3401 DA
Megs 83
Megs 80
Megs UC
Optimum Compound 2
Optimum Polish 2
Sonus SFX pads (yellow/white/blue) so light cut to finishing

Anyways, i read in a couple places that the mazda clear would be fairly soft. So i decide to hit the car with a white polishing pad + megs 80, to see if it would even do anything. Nada.

Next i tried megs 83 on a yellow light cut pad. A little better, but not even close.

So then i go to try a yellow light cut pad + Megs UC, and also OC2. Well it does take out a majority of the swirls, but RIDS are still clearly there, as well as some basic swirling (unless its micro marring? never had to deal with it before so i wouldn't know, still looks like the tiniest edges of swirls).

So anyways, i worked on the hood a bit more today, and finally got one section to polish out to an acceptable level, however this took about 3 passes of yellow+OC2, and then a pass of megs UC+yellow using the water spritz KBM. Having a little more faith in the UC KBM, i tried to do an untouched portion of the hood and hit it first with this. It took out about 25% of the swirls, but was still no where near being finished. It felt like i would need maybe 3 or even 4 passes of this method per section to get the correction im after.

So MOL, where do i go from here? Is 4 passes for every small section plausible? This would take me forever to do!

heres the questions that are stuck on my mind the most:

1) is mazda 3 clear actually very hard?
2) Do i need stronger pads? LC yellow heavy cut or perhaps even PFW?
3) Do i need to get 105/205?
4) Is doing 4 passes in one area the only way?

If anyone can chime in please do so, i was really happy how my 2 first details turned out, but now my confidence is taking a bit of a hit on the mazda, could really use your guys' help!

[aznives3]

Re: paint correction on a mazda 3 - need help quick please!

heres what im working against



after OC2, 2-3 passes, looks better in pics than it did in person



here is what UC did after a few passes





notice the minor swirls still in the paint after a few UC KBM's

before anything



after 3 passes OC, with 1 pass UC KBM and still some defects left



before anything



1 pass UC KBM



2 passes UC KBM



okay, thats what i'm working against right now. I know i varied alot of my processes on the hood, so if you guys want, let me know what combo of stuff to put together with what i have, and i can do 50/50's on the door to see if anything you guys can reccomend will be working.

All help is GREATLY appreciated!

[Murr1525]

Re: paint correction on a mazda 3 - need help quick please!

#105 is a little stronger than UC, but I dont know enough about the Sonus pads and how they compare.

[aznives3]

Re: paint correction on a mazda 3 - need help quick please!

sonus pads as follows:

yellow sonus = orange LC
white sonus = white LC
blue sonus = blue/black LC

[aznives3]

Re: paint correction on a mazda 3 - need help quick please!

well...****.

today i moved onto the door, just to get myself a nice freshly swirled panel. I decided to just try one thing, to see exactly what was going on.

tried megs UC + yellow sonus pad (supposedly a LC orange equivalent)

did not spritz with water, just worked it in like a normal polish. Spread it at speed 3 on the flex DA, worked it for 4 cross hatches at speed 5

Here is what the paint looked like fresh





Here is it after 1 pass, still swirled!



After pass #2....see for yourself!


After pass #3...still got lots of defects that SEEM like they should be coming out




And this is what i took it to, all the way up to pass #4, and after this i kinda quit for the day to set up for a garage sale tomororw, and also because i was getting frustrated with getting minimal results for quite a bit of polishing





So once again im in a pickle, i think this just kinda shows me that i may need to step up my product/pad/machine even? I am hoping and putting faith in my flex DA that its still capable of helping me out here.

Here's what i've got in mind right now for options

1) buy 105/205, PFW and some LC yellow pads
2) Stick with megs UC/OC2, and pick up some megs W7006 burgandy pads locally
3) get a rotary, 105/205/pfw and all the works! haha

right now i'm leaning towards option 2, since i found a few places that carry the megs W7006 cutting pads locally, but nobody around here carries 105. I did end up reading though on MOL that the burgandy pad may not be able to used with a DA? can anyone confirm this? Does anyone think that that pad isn't going to be strong enough still and that i definately need some 105 + PFW?

Thanks again, hopefully i can hammer this car out, really want this one to end well!

[Markus Kleis]

Re: paint correction on a mazda 3 - need help quick please!

Actually, first thing I would personally do is try the same process with M105 instead of Ultimate Compound. You are talking basically twice the cut from the product (not counting pad), and they should finish out about the same.

Then, if at that point M105 still doesn't do the trick I would consider the Purple Foamed Wool. I used to use FLEX 3401/PFW/M105 with amazing results, but the PFW really gunks up and dusts very quickly. I ended up having to buy 15 of them so I could keep a fresh supply (I don't have an air compressor to blow them out as I work).

Just hang in there, you're getting close.

[aznives3]

Re: paint correction on a mazda 3 - need help quick please!

sounds like i need some of the miracle work that 105 would provide. Now for the PFW, would buying 3 be enough? I don't usually end up finishing a whole car in a day, so usually by the time im through 2 or 3 pads its about time for a rest or so. I do have compressed air that i can use to blow it clean, but how long do they last? do they ever permanently just die very quick or can they be spurred/cleaned multiple times? Just kinda ***** that i can't find 105 here locally, and would have to order it in

[aznives3]

Re: paint correction on a mazda 3 - need help quick please!

oh, and does megs make any wool pads that are DA compatible? What about the burgandy pads i'm wondering about, are those any more cut than the yellow light cut sonus or an orange light cut LC? would it be more the same as the LC yellow heavy cut?

[akimel]

Re: paint correction on a mazda 3 - need help quick please!

Hi, Aznives. I'm afraid I have no advice to offer, being a newb to machine polishing, but I just want you to know that I sympathize with your situation. I know how frustrating it is to spend hours polishing a car and not get the results one is hoping for. I just barely survived my three day polishing marathon with my car. I'm still trying to build up the courage to try again.

In my situation, which is different from yours, I had to switch from the Flex to the G110 to get the original factory paint to look good. For some reason I kept hazing the paint with the Flex and the unigrit polishes. Switching to the gentler G110 cleared up my paint, but I still did not achieve the level of correction I was hoping for. I was just too exhausted by that time to attempt anything more ambitious.

I did learn one thing from that adventure: sometimes it's best to tackle only a couple panels at a time and spread the work out over a week or two.

Good luck!

Al

[Michael Stoops]

Re: paint correction on a mazda 3 - need help quick please!

Sounds as though you're new to machine polishing so let's talk about your technique a bit here. Make sure you're giving the products time to do their job. Common mistakes among those just learning to use a D/A buffer is to move too quickly over the surface, not use enough pressure and/or working too large an area. Keep your work space to a maximum 2'x 2' (sounds as though you're probably doing this now), slow down your arm speed so that you aren't sweeping the machine over the work area - this gives the product more time to work a given area without actually dwelling on a spot. Pressure can have a big impact as well. Experiment a bit; try using enough pressure to stop the rotation of the pad and then back off just enough to get it rotating again and keep the pressure at that level.

Give that a shot with the Ultimate Compound before moving on to a different liquid, and certainly before moving to a different machine.

[aznives3]

Re: paint correction on a mazda 3 - need help quick please!

yeah i think i'll stay with the flex for now, but i have got about 20-25 hours behind the D/A for experience now, i know its not saying much, but its not my first time either. I do like to keep my working area's small, such that the mazda 3 door would be split into 4 sections like in the picture, thats about a 2'x2' right? I have also experimented with machine speeds, arm speeds, pressure as well. I'm not entirely sure its possible to lean into the flex enough to stop the rotation is it? i feel like i've pressed as hard as i can already, its just in my mind that i may have hit the limitations of the pad/product combo i'm using right now, and its time to step up to something more aggressive (aka pfw + 105 etc).

I've tried using lots of pressure, max speed on the flex, and very slow arm speed with these results, so im not sure really how much more i could go to vary my technique. Maybe a longer working time? how many "cross hatches" should there be usually? i was doing about 4 on this last door attempt

[Bounty]

Re: paint correction on a mazda 3 - need help quick please!

Read everyone else's posts and there is some good info there. Having used the Flex extensively and the products you have mentioned here's my advice:

1. Move up in aggressivity of product... Get some M105 and stop wasting your time/effort until you do. You have already determined that UC isn't getting you the results you want after three or four passes so just put the Flex down for now.

2. Move up in aggressivity of pad... Get yourself either some Lake Country PFW pad's or CCS Orange (which are slightly more aggressive than the Sonus Yellow's). Forget the CCS Yellow as it is very abrasive and tends to scour or scuff the paint quite a bit.

3. Move up in aggressivity of technique... Set the Flex to speed 6. Spread the product around with a light squeeze of the trigger then lock it in and go to work. Complete 6 to 8 passes at least over the work area (3 or 4 vertical and then horizontal) overlapping by approximately 50% each pass.

This way you have now ramped up your level of defect removal considerably in all aspects and should be able to acheive the desired results. There are other pads/products/machines/techniques you could try but I have yet to find a paint surface that does not respond to the above methodology. Let me know if you have any other questions...

[aznives3]

Re: paint correction on a mazda 3 - need help quick please!

Thanks for chiming in bounty. Very informative post and I just wanted to be sure that I’ve hit the limitations of the products that I have. I will definitely get on to sourcing some 105 today for sure, just ***** that I have to order it as its not available locally, but it will be worth it in the end I guess. The only thing now is, I’ve still got a ton of 80 here, do I need 205 to clean up 105 or could 80 potentially be usable? I actually enjoy using 80, so I wouldn’t mind using it to bring the paint up to LSP ready. Its cool to though if I do need 205

[Bounty]

Re: paint correction on a mazda 3 - need help quick please!

Thanks for chiming in bounty. Very informative post and I just wanted to be sure that I’ve hit the limitations of the products that I have. I will definitely get on to sourcing some 105 today for sure, just ***** that I have to order it as its not available locally, but it will be worth it in the end I guess. The only thing now is, I’ve still got a ton of 80 here, do I need 205 to clean up 105 or could 80 potentially be usable? I actually enjoy using 80, so I wouldn’t mind using it to bring the paint up to LSP ready. Its cool to though if I do need 205

M205 was specifically designed to follow M105 but you can use a variety of products to finish out the paint surface after the initial defect removal stage...

Your goal in detemrining what to chase M105 with is what effect you're looking to have. If you are trying to remove induced marring left by the M105 then you could follow with something as aggressive as UC on a mild pad or M205 on a polishing pad. If the M105 finished out without marring then follow it with a finishing pad/mild product combo to burnish to a high gloss.

The M80 is a different abrasive technology so be sure to adjust your technique accordingly while using it and do not coss-contaminate pads.