A DIY'er starting to Detail! need some help :)

[Bounty]

Re: A DIY'er starting to Detail! need some help

Ill be using M205 as my primary though :O, with a polishing pad first to see how it works. Then M105 with a polishing pad if M205 does not get me were I need. Now whats with this water your talking about, I looked up the KBM and it just talked about pre spreding the polish on your pad :O

You need to head over to the www.truthindetailing.com forums where there are many more discussions of the Kevin Brown Method (including many full threads by Kevin himself). The Kevin Brown Method is not just priming the pad with product. It also includes utilizing a very light spritz of de-ionized water to extend the working time of the polish, minimize dusting, and increase workability when the M105 goes dry. This would, in effect, negate a second pass (meaning complete set of vertical and horizontal passes) over a section being worked because you are now extending the working time of the product without having to stop and reapply.

[thescreensavers]

Re: A DIY'er starting to Detail! need some help

woops

[thescreensavers]

Re: A DIY'er starting to Detail! need some help

Ok, you had me scared there for a minute...

If you're referring to the number of times you would move the polisher in one direction over a particular section then that is fine. Three "passes" vertically and three horizontally is a good starting point for M205.

That number of passes with M105 will usually be the point at which it is done unless you are using the KBM (Kevin Brown Method) and then you would lightly spritz the section with some water and extend working time. M105 has a much shorter working time then M205 without the KBM in my experience.

M205 typically doesn't need to have its working time extended as it will generally not be used as your primary defect removal product for heavy correction. Light correction can be acheived without the KBM as it was designed for acheiving that "extra" ten percent beyond what normal methods would correct. The M205 will finish out nicely on most paint surfaces. When I still used the PC7424 or G110 as my primary tool, I would start with three horizontal and three vertical passes over a section on speed 6 with moderate pressure (non-Meg's pads or speed 5 if using Meg's pads). Then finish up with two to three passes in each direction on speed 4 with light to no pressure to burnish and jewel the finish to a high gloss.

Ill be using M205 as my primary though :O, with a polishing pad first to see how it works. Then M105 with a polishing pad if M205 does not get me were I need. Now whats with this water your talking about, I looked up the KBM and it just talked about pre spreding the polish on your pad :O

[Bounty]

Re: A DIY'er starting to Detail! need some help

I am not exactly sure but I am thinking its how many times I pass over an entire 16x16 area. or how ever the size of section I am working on. Up down up down till I cover the whole area, that's 1 then side to side till the end that's 2.. so forth and so on.

Ok, you had me scared there for a minute...

If you're referring to the number of times you would move the polisher in one direction over a particular section then that is fine. Three "passes" vertically and three horizontally is a good starting point for M205.

That number of passes with M105 will usually be the point at which it is done unless you are using the KBM (Kevin Brown Method) and then you would lightly spritz the section with some water and extend working time. M105 has a much shorter working time then M205 without the KBM in my experience.

M205 typically doesn't need to have its working time extended as it will generally not be used as your primary defect removal product for heavy correction. Light correction can be acheived without the KBM as it was designed for acheiving that "extra" ten percent beyond what normal methods would correct. The M205 will finish out nicely on most paint surfaces. When I still used the PC7424 or G110 as my primary tool, I would start with three horizontal and three vertical passes over a section on speed 6 with moderate pressure (non-Meg's pads or speed 5 if using Meg's pads). Then finish up with two to three passes in each direction on speed 4 with light to no pressure to burnish and jewel the finish to a high gloss.

[thescreensavers]

Re: A DIY'er starting to Detail! need some help

By "passes" do you mean individual trips around the car?! As in a four- to six-step correction?! That is a lot...

I am not exactly sure but I am thinking its how many times I pass over an entire 16x16 area. or how ever the size of section I am working on. Up down up down till I cover the whole area, that's 1 then side to side till the end that's 2.. so forth and so on.

[Bounty]

Re: A DIY'er starting to Detail! need some help

Thanks for your post. It seems I will be trying M205 with the While Polishing pad first on a test spot to see if that's good for me. I am buying 6 pads of each. 15 a pack.

Sounds like a good starting point...

But you say to change pad after every 3 to 4 panels? And by panel you mean like the whole door being one panel or just that 16x16 section?

As in one full panel...one door, one fender, one bumper, etc. Hood and/or roof is considered two panels each depending on size (use your judgement here). Obviously if the pad is too heavily contaminated or product loaded anytime during the process you'd want to clean on the fly regardless of whether you've only done half a panel. Normally this won't occur if you're using proper amounts of product, technique, and application method.

4 to 6 passes is whats projected. I hope 6 is enough to do my whole car :O.

By "passes" do you mean individual trips around the car?! As in a four- to six-step correction?! That is a lot...

Lets say I do use all 6 before I am finished, I will have to clean them and wait for them to dry before I can use them right?

Yup...if you run out then you run out. Nothing you can do about that but clean what you have and wait till the next day.

[thescreensavers]

Re: A DIY'er starting to Detail! need some help

This is one of the exact reasons why you can never have too many pads! Although cleaning on the fly is a nice way to extend your work time you could always grab a fresh pad after every panel or two and insure 100% consistent and fastest cut from your pads as possible. Sure, it might take 10 pads to do a car but if you don't have to stop and clean pads or figure out when to do it and hope your level of cut is consistent it sure is a nicer way to work.

That being said, your question does depend. For a rough estimate (considering all possible polishes, pads, paint surfaces, etc) I'd say clean after every panel or two. This will insure you're not loading the pad with product and that you're removing the abraded clearcoat (paint) from the defect removal process from your pad. Even with cleaning on the fly I would not use a pad beyond 3 to 4 panels. It should take at least 3 pads to do an entire normal size vehicle. If you're using a tool like a Flex (much more powerful than a G110) and a heavy-cut compound (like M105) for serious defect removal I'd cut that down to 2 panels. You're just removing so much of the film layer that this builds up in your pad...especially when using a grooved, segmented, or close cell structure pad.

Thanks for your post. It seems I will be trying M205 with the While Polishing pad and then finish with the black finishing pad first on a test spot to see if that's good for me. I am buying 6 pads of each. 15 a pack. But you say to change pad after every 3 to 4 panels? And by panel you mean like the whole door being one panel or just that 16x16 section? 4 to 6 passes is whats projected, also is that the same amount of passes on the finishing pad?. I hope 6 is enough to do my whole car :O.

Lets say I do use all 6 before I am finished, I will have to clean them and wait for them to dry before I can use them right?

[Bounty]

Re: A DIY'er starting to Detail! need some help

Still need some help with this question, if anyone could help me with it. Thanks

This is one of the exact reasons why you can never have too many pads! Although cleaning on the fly is a nice way to extend your work time you could always grab a fresh pad after every panel or two and insure 100% consistent and fastest cut from your pads as possible. Sure, it might take 10 pads to do a car but if you don't have to stop and clean pads or figure out when to do it and hope your level of cut is consistent it sure is a nicer way to work.

That being said, your question does depend. For a rough estimate (considering all possible polishes, pads, paint surfaces, etc) I'd say clean after every panel or two. This will insure you're not loading the pad with product and that you're removing the abraded clearcoat (paint) from the defect removal process from your pad. Even with cleaning on the fly I would not use a pad beyond 3 to 4 panels. It should take at least 3 pads to do an entire normal size vehicle. If you're using a tool like a Flex (much more powerful than a G110) and a heavy-cut compound (like M105) for serious defect removal I'd cut that down to 2 panels. You're just removing so much of the film layer that this builds up in your pad...especially when using a grooved, segmented, or close cell structure pad.

[thescreensavers]

Re: A DIY'er starting to Detail! need some help

Ok I read up on the Kevin Brown Method, my only problem is when the pad is no longer usable. I can keep using the same pad for the whole car and not notice. Whats a good indicator that the pad needs to be replaced?

I know after I am done with my 16x16, 20x20 section..ect to clean it with a MF cloth, then add 2 dots to reprim if needed. then just continue. But I still really dont know when to replace the Pad.

Also how do you clean the pad completely after your done?

Thanks for all the help so far everyone

Still need some help with this question, if anyone could help me with it. Thanks

[Underdawg736]

Re: A DIY'er starting to Detail! need some help

One thing that would behoove you to do is a test spot. I'm not orientated to using a machine yet, but when I came to this forum looking for guidance the most important thing drilled into my skull was to do a test spot with the products I have and dial in your process there before heading out to do the rest of your car. Try it out useing UC/SwirlX, M105/M205 and topping it off with NXT.

The weather will also affect what you put on, how long to rub it in and how big or little the section needs to be.

Depending on how bad the defects are, UC and SwirlX will be good friends to you.

Most importantly.....have fun!

[thescreensavers]

Re: A DIY'er starting to Detail! need some help

Ok I read up on the Kevin Brown Method, my only problem is when the pad is no longer usable. I can keep using the same pad for the whole car and not notice. Whats a good indicator that the pad needs to be replaced?

I know after I am done with my 16x16, 20x20 section..ect to clean it with a MF cloth, then add 2 dots to reprim if needed. then just continue. But I still really dont know when to replace the Pad.

Also how do you clean the pad completly after your done?

Thanks for all the help so far everyone

[thescreensavers]

Re: A DIY'er starting to Detail! need some help

Based on your pic I would think M205 on a polishing pad (Yellow Megs/While LC) would be sufficient to remove the light marring/swirling you have, but a test spot should confirm. If that doesn't work then I would try the M105 on a polishing pad and that should be more than enough. Follow that up with M205 on a finishing pad and then wax away. I really don't think a light cutting pad will be necessary.

4-6 passes with medium pressure is all I will usually do, and then I wipe to see if the defects were removed.

When you say finishing pad you mean the LC Grey pad right?

ok, ill try that on my test spot. Sounds Good thanks

[RaskyR1]

Re: A DIY'er starting to Detail! need some help

Based on your pic I would think M205 on a polishing pad (Yellow Megs/While LC) would be sufficient to remove the light marring/swirling you have, but a test spot should confirm. If that doesn't work then I would try the M105 on a polishing pad and that should be more than enough. Follow that up with M205 on a finishing pad and then wax away. I really don't think a light cutting pad will be necessary.

4-6 passes with medium pressure is all I will usually do, and then I wipe to see if the defects were removed.

[thescreensavers]

Re: A DIY'er starting to Detail! need some help

Good luck and have fun!

Cheers,
Al

Thanks

Yea, ill do a test spot, I think I am going to try M205 with the light cutting pad first to see how that looks on my test spot. All I got is light swirl marks all over nothing too serious. But I will buy M105 in case I need to use that with the light cutting pad.

Also if M205 is good for what I need to do, when I am finished with the Light cutting pad do I still need to Use the Polishing pad with the M205?

Thanks again Al

[akimel]

Re: A DIY'er starting to Detail! need some help

Let me get the whole routine down.

1. Wash 2 bucket method

2. Clay bar, I want to clay my whole car will the 2 bars in the kit be enough?

The two claybars should be adequate for several cars. Be sure to break the bar into two or three pieces, just in case you accidentally drop the piece you are using on the ground. If you do drop a piece, do not use it again on the paint.

3A. Start with M105 compound, put a nickle sized amount on the Orange Light cutting pad. ( I saw a video were they said to apply pad conditioner? Also is there presoaking the pad with M105?) Spread it on the car, start at speed 3 to spread around the area I am working, then switch it on to speed 5 work the polish in untill it completly breaks down. Then Wipe off. Continue this for the rest of the car.

Given that I am unacquainted with the LC pads, others will have to offer their opinions. My one piece of advice is to first do a TEST SPOT! You may also wish to start off with M205 and a polishing pad, just to see how it works. The rule is to begin with the less aggressive approach and move up. Do not polish your entire car until you have both found the right pad and polish combination and have gotten your technique down.

Because both M105 and M205 contain non-diminishing abrasives, you do not need to break them down. You can stop at any point during the polishing to check on your progress. Just be sure not to buff to a dry surface. There should always be a thin lubricating film present.

Be sure to clean your pad after every panel: Cleaning Your Pad On The Fly.

Hopefully the pros will step in here and offer their wisdom on working with both M105 and M205. There is a learning curve with these products.

Now put the White polishing pad on. Apply M205 same prosedure as 3A. Then wipe when its broken down continue on the whole car.

Don't forget the test spot.

4. Now its time to apply Nxt 2.0 Tech wax. Apply to Grey finishing pad and same procedure as 3A, but I can move faster. I let the Wax dry then wipe with cloth. 8 Hours later I can apply a second coat if I want.

Apply at speed 3. Thin coats.

5. Look at my awesome looking black car!

The essential step!

Good luck and have fun!

Cheers,
Al