83/80 combo vs D-151

[shinyaccord]

I have been away from the site from a while due to new job and sorts. I have since returned and see that there's a new product, D-151. I am very familiar with the 83/80 combo as this is what I have used in the past to remove paint defects very effectively.

I recently purchased a used 2003 Honda Accord that is in need of a good paint make-over. It has some pretty bad swirls, scratches, and paint defects that I will be tackling soon with my G-100. I am out of the 83 and the 80 so I will be re-ordering products asap.

I am just wanting anyone that has used the 83/80 combo in the past and has tried the new D-151 lately to post back if the results are comparable. I have read that they have different abrasive qualities so I'm just trying to decide if I should just stick with the 83/80 or maybe go to the 1 step D-151. This Accord is a daily driver that I just want to make look as good as I can. Thanks to anyone that can offer suggestions or testimony.

[OhioCarBuff]

Re: 83/80 combo vs D-151

I haven't tried D151 yet, however based on what I have been reading on here and my conversation on the customer service hotline the other day D151 is about as aggressive as 83 yet should not finish off with a haze when used with a DA, which 83 and even 80 can be prone to leaving on various paints. I assume it uses the same technology as the new 105 ultra cut which can finish off crystal clear yet be so aggressive at the same time. I'm really looking forward to trying the D151 because the biggest thing I dislike about 80 and 83 is that they usually need to be followed up with a less agressive product like #9 to make the paint as shiny as it should be

[Markus Kleis]

Re: 83/80 combo vs D-151

In my experience I would have to say that, drum roll, it depends. Heh, I know, not the answer you wanted so let me explain: D151 does use micro abrasives like those found in M105, and it is a great product to finish down very nicely and leave some protection, BUT, like ALL products from time to time it may not work as well as it can. Sometimes you need to bust out the trusty #83 and #80 instead, or possibly even do #83 followed by #151.

Another thing to consider is that since #151 does have wax in it, it might conceal some damage that wasn't fully buffed out more than #80 would have...so you need to pay more attention and make sure you truly finished the area down to a flawless finish.

[OhioCarBuff]

Re: 83/80 combo vs D-151

In my experience I would have to say that, drum roll, it depends. Heh, I know, not the answer you wanted so let me explain: D151 does use micro abrasives like those found in M105, and it is a great product to finish down very nicely and leave some protection, BUT, like ALL products from time to time it may not work as well as it can. Sometimes you need to bust out the trusty #83 and #80 instead, or possibly even do #83 followed by #151.

Another thing to consider is that since #151 does have wax in it, it might conceal some damage that wasn't fully buffed out more than #80 would have...so you need to pay more attention and make sure you truly finished the area down to a flawless finish.

That's true about the wax, here's an excellent review where after buffing with the DA and D151, Tim took alcohol and cleaned the paint off, and the finish was crystal clear with no haze. He also said he was about equally as strong as 83.

The man at the meguiars customer care said D151 should finish off totally haze free, boy I sure hope this is true!

[OhioCarBuff]

Re: 83/80 combo vs D-151

Whoops, here's a link to that review of D151 where Tim took the alcohol and revealed a crystal clear haze free and swirl free finish...

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23614

[jmakado]

Re: 83/80 combo vs D-151

Now that I have more time with D151 I am more comfortable making suggestions with it. Here is what I have found. D151 will leave a slight haze on certain finishes. It will also finish out crystal clear on others. That is why a test spot is so important. I recently did a black Audi with HEAVY scratches, marring, RIDS, you name it! I started with 105/cutting pad/rotary. Once the finish was leveled I went to D151. It did leave slight marring. I also did a test spot with just D151 on my DA to make sure it wasn't just the haze from 105 being left over. The test spot showed some marring from D151 alone. I would say I have tried D151 on 10 different cars now. 8 of the 10 showed no marring.

I then did a test spot where I worked the D151 for MUCH longer. 6 passes with the DA at very slow arm speeds. This did the trick! The marring was gone. Does this mean that if you work D151 for a very long time it won't mar? I have no clue really. It worked in this instance. If you are looking for a one step product that will never leave marring, get M66. I honestly think the best solution is to have both D151 and M66. Both are fairly inexpensive and both have a place and time IMO.

Now, to your original question. No, I would not say that D151 can replace 83/80. I use a gallon of 83 or 80 before I finish 12oz of D151. It all depends on what you are trying to do. D151 if geared towards production detailers who need cut, polish, and protection in one step. If that fits what you want to do then great. It doesn't cut like 105, polish like 80, or leave a layer of protection as good as NXT or 21. It's not meant to. I would say the cut is *around* 83. Sometimes it seems like a tad more, sometimes a tad less. If all you are doing is your Accord then I would suggest getting both 83 and 80. If you have some cash left over, get a sample of 105. It's only $10 from ADS for 12oz. I use maybe 4oz per car. If it where me I would also get a sample of D151 $7 and M66 $5. With those 5 products, wax, and some clay you will have everything you need to get your Accord looking great and keeping it that way.

If you are wanting to keep your product to a minimum then 83, 80, NXT. I have had no issues removing the hazing left by 105 with 80...but I still would like some more paint to try it on before I would suggest replacing 83 with it in a 3 product setup. I will always have both in my quiver.

[VonLego]

Re: 83/80 combo vs D-151

I have a left over gallon of 83 which will not see as much use now that 105 is in the picture. It at first looked smooth to me, but i through some 80 on just in case. After using the 80 the optical clarity shot up another few points, and I loved the look.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: 83/80 combo vs D-151

Now that I have more time with D151 I am more comfortable making suggestions with it. Here is what I have found. D151 will leave a slight haze on certain finishes. It will also finish out crystal clear on others.

That is why a test spot is so important.

Bingo!

Different paints will react differently to different products, what may work great on one paint system may not work very well on another paint system, that's why it's important to have a few different paint correction products in your arsenal so you can test and see which products work the best.

[InfiniteDetail]

Re: 83/80 combo vs D-151

In my experience I would have to say that, drum roll, it depends. Heh, I know, not the answer you wanted so let me explain: D151 does use micro abrasives like those found in M105, and it is a great product to finish down very nicely and leave some protection, BUT, like ALL products from time to time it may not work as well as it can. Sometimes you need to bust out the trusty #83 and #80 instead, or possibly even do #83 followed by #151.

Another thing to consider is that since #151 does have wax in it, it might conceal some damage that wasn't fully buffed out more than #80 would have...so you need to pay more attention and make sure you truly finished the area down to a flawless finish.

+1, in most cases 151 finished up beautifully. However, in a few we've had to follow it with 80 to get rid of some light hologramming.

[shinyaccord]

Re: 83/80 combo vs D-151

I assume it uses the same technology as the new 105 ultra cut which can finish off crystal clear yet be so aggressive at the same time.

I'm not familiar with 105 ultra cut???? Is that new as well? Can it be applied with DA (G100)?

At what point in the process would it be used with 83/80/21 combo?
With D-151 application?


Also thanks to all who have posted. I appreciate all the info.

[Override]

Re: 83/80 combo vs D-151

I have only started doing stuff and i just recently did a car with what seemed to me as very hard paint/clear. so i did an 83 , followed by d151 and the result was great...

i did work the 151 a lot to get it good, i did work it only half way and did a side by side and it definately left a haze... work it a little longer and it was clear and the paint was much nicer.

i did try 151 by itself with a cutting pad and it did not do as well on this car as the 83. but it finished off very nice. ( i just posted the pictures in the show off your work section )

Ryan

[Mike Phillips]

Re: 83/80 combo vs D-151

I'm not familiar with 105 ultra cut???? Is that new as well? Can it be applied with DA (G100)?

First read this,

M105 Ultra Cut Compound - New





M105 Ultra-Cut Compound
Exclusive, super-micro abrasive technology

FEATURES:
• Ultra-fast cutting removes 1200 grit or finer sanding marks
• Super-micro abrasives leave best in class finish
• Also great for removing scratches, defects, acid rain and severe swirls/holograms
• For use with a rotary buffer or by hand
• Not intended to be used with a dual action polisher

M10532 MSRP $30.00
M10501 MSRP $90.00


Then read this,

Why not M105 with a DA Polisher?

At what point in the process would it be used with 83/80/21 combo?
With D-151 application?

If a person were to use M105 in their process it would be used after washing and claying the car. It's a product for removing below surface defects, so it's a product you would use to remove swirls and scratches. If you were a painter in a body shop you would use it to remove sanding marks out of fresh paint.

[jmakado]

Re: 83/80 combo vs D-151

+1, in most cases 151 finished up beautifully. However, in a few we've had to follow it with 80 to get rid of some light hologramming.

Why not follow with M66 instead? Then you are already halfway to geting 2 coats of wax.

[InfiniteDetail]

Re: 83/80 combo vs D-151

Why not follow with M66 instead? Then you are already halfway to geting 2 coats of wax.

Yeah, we have M66 on our list of stuff to buy on our next order for that very reason

[jmakado]

Re: 83/80 combo vs D-151

I see. It' one of my favorites or sure.