Going Green?

[Don]

Re: Going Green?

Yeah... we're kind of into recycling versus buying new...

The last new car my parents bought was a 1977 Subaru and since then they've bought newer used cars and kept them until they were no longer economical to repair. My brother keeps a car until it (literally) falls apart around him.

The car in my avatar had 106,000 and looked/drove like new...until the accident.

That 1959 Cadillac by the way got 22 miles per gallon on the freeway at cruising speed. Only had 50,000 mile on it when we bought it back in Eugene, Oregon for around $5000.00

It's surprising how fuel efficient those old cars can be. Those big engines don't have to work hard at all to maintain highway speeds. It's like a Mustang and a Tractor-trailer, each one puts out around 300 horsepower (for argument's sake), but the Mustang does it at 6,500 rpms and the truck does it at only 2,500 rpms...which engine is going to burn the least amount of fuel?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Going Green?

Yeah... we're kind of into recycling versus buying new...

In fact, we're in the middle of recycling another new-to-us 30 year old car. If we get it to run and drive well, then we'll post some pictures of it even though it's not real purdy.

That 1959 Cadillac by the way got 22 miles per gallon on the freeway at cruising speed. Only had 50,000 mile on it when we bought it back in Eugene, Oregon for around $5000.00

Tuned it up, put on some new tires and never turned a wrench on it again, just had a blast driving it around.

[Don]

Re: Going Green?

Hot Rodders are some of the original environmentalists... They recycle an old car into not only a work of art but also a modern driver and they run as clean as when they were new or cleaner.

This is getting more use out of the original raw materials used to make these older cars and keep them on the road and out of landfills or wrecking yards.

I thought you might feel that way considering:


AND

[supercharged]

Re: Going Green?

As I've been growing up, there have been several hobbies and interests that I have given up because one group or another has made regulations or laws that became so increasingly restrictive that it just wasn't worth the effort jumping through all the hoops to partake in the activity, which is only one of many reasons I got into detailing...who's going to get upset because I like to wash and clean my car? Who indeed?

I admit that my first cars were heaps that leaked almost as much as the EXXON VALDEZ, but I didn't have the money or knowledge to fix them. As time went on, my cars got better and I gained the knowledge to repair them myself, or if the job was beyond me, I was able to have them fixed. As a result, the only oil & grease that coming from my car during a wash was the accumulation of road grime (natural materials + those deposited on the ground by other peoples' heaps that are still on the road).

Not only do I find a clean car and engine aesthetically pleasing, having the engine clean not only lets me notice much sooner if something is wrong...a gasket starting to fail, fluids coming out from around a bolt etc, but it makes it sooo much nicer to 'tinker around' in the engine compartment (much to my wife's annoyance and dismay..."Oh No, he's doing his "Tim the Toolman-I'm just gonna tweak it a bit"-thing).

Now, given the regulations already being imposed on wash runoff (primarily, for now in the larger cities and widespread in the Nation of California) and with more being added as time passes, it's not difficult to foresee these current regulations (AND much harsher ones) becoming nationwide. Where does it end? Will there come a time when, if you want your car washed, you have to go to an EPA-approved federal facility and have a Haz-Mat team do the cleaning, costing you a week's or month's salary? More laws will have some effect, but more laws are not the answer. The only thing more and more laws do is make more and more people criminals. Don't think so? In Ohio (and other states) smoking in any public building or business, or within 30 feet of the primary entrance to a public building or business became illegal last year. Fines run from between $100 to $2,500 dollars. Other than the occasional fracturing of a speed limit, I've always followed the law...now, I'm a criminal.

I don't want anyone to misunderstand, I HATE pollution, I hate litter and those that toss out their trash to be carried off by the wind. That there are lakes and ponds where I can't eat the fish I catch because the water has been poisoned by man-made chemical pollution INFURIATES me. The reason I go to a state park every year for vacation (other than it's been a family tradition for almost 60 years) is because the EPA doesn't know the lake exists...when you go to the EPA website and look at the lakes they have listed and the dangers of eating the fish from there...THIS LAKE ISN'T THERE! I can fish 24/7 then gorge myself on my catch and not have to worry about PCBs, lead, mercury or anything of the other pollutants that I can't even spell or pronounce. But again I have to ask: "Where does it end?" In California, there are aftermarket or performance auto parts that are not legal for use: EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE NO EFFECT ON, OR EVEN REDUCE HARMFUL EMMISSIONS, just because CARB hasn't 'approved of them.' From what I'm to understand, getting CARB approval is an extrememly expensive undertaking-even for a large-scale manufacturer. They won't even bother to test your car if they see a forbidden part, you automatically fail. And that makes sense how? In Ohio (from my experience), as long as you still have the catalytic converter and the "Check Engine" light is off, your car is tested and it passes or fails based on actual emmissions levels.

I can't condone killing a forest to save a single tree. I can't see the benefit of scrapping ALL cars built before an arbitrary date, because some of the ones from that era that are still running are "polluters."

Knee-jerk reactions by a single-minded group of people that understand less than half of what they think they do, will not solve the problem. People who think all food should be organic, all machines not human powered or powered by solar, wind or water produced electricity should be immediately eliminated are NOT the ones we want making the decisions affecting ALL of us.

When will rational and reasonable thinking take over to solve the ecology problems? When will people realize that arbitrary banning and illegalization is not the ultimate and only solution.

Where WILL it end?

I don't like it myself, with all this EPA thing, we soon might be taxed on our farts, or smogged at least...
I do hate stinking cars, though...I simply think that if your @#$% stinks - you should pay more for it...therefore the new car tax set up that they have in Germany would be very useful in United States, helping you buy a new car by making DMV fees lower for new cars...and the older it gets - the more you pay...so cars from 70's, unless modified to remove all the stiky smog would probably be banned...

Just my $0.02...

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Going Green?

I can't condone killing a forest to save a single tree. I can't see the benefit of scrapping ALL cars built before an arbitrary date, because some of the ones from that era that are still running are "polluters."

Hot Rodders are some of the original environmentalists... They recycle an old car into not only a work of art but also a modern driver and they run as clean as when they were new or cleaner.

This is getting more use out of the original raw materials used to make these older cars and keep them on the road and out of landfills or wrecking yards.

[Renny Doyle]

Re: Going Green?

As many others have indicated, I too am not buying into the GW pitch. But, we are doing what we can to better our systems all while being easy on Mother Nature.

Most of our common washes we perform today uses less then two gallons of water. Not a waterless wash but what some within the industry are coining "Smart Water" washes.

In addition, we are very picky about buying products from those organizations that are using both human and nature safe manufacturing practices and products.

Nothing wrong with taking care of our earth but I think a good part of this GW stuff is a good fleece on the American public and its going to do a real number to businesses based in our country. America has large shoulders and once again the world likes to rest on those shoulders.

[Don]

Re: Going Green?

As I've been growing up, there have been several hobbies and interests that I have given up because one group or another has made regulations or laws that became so increasingly restrictive that it just wasn't worth the effort jumping through all the hoops to partake in the activity, which is only one of many reasons I got into detailing...who's going to get upset because I like to wash and clean my car? Who indeed?

I admit that my first cars were heaps that leaked almost as much as the EXXON VALDEZ, but I didn't have the money or knowledge to fix them. As time went on, my cars got better and I gained the knowledge to repair them myself, or if the job was beyond me, I was able to have them fixed. As a result, the only oil & grease that coming from my car during a wash was the accumulation of road grime (natural materials + those deposited on the ground by other peoples' heaps that are still on the road).

Not only do I find a clean car and engine aesthetically pleasing, having the engine clean not only lets me notice much sooner if something is wrong...a gasket starting to fail, fluids coming out from around a bolt etc, but it makes it sooo much nicer to 'tinker around' in the engine compartment (much to my wife's annoyance and dismay..."Oh No, he's doing his "Tim the Toolman-I'm just gonna tweak it a bit"-thing).

Now, given the regulations already being imposed on wash runoff (primarily, for now in the larger cities and widespread in the Nation of California) and with more being added as time passes, it's not difficult to foresee these current regulations (AND much harsher ones) becoming nationwide. Where does it end? Will there come a time when, if you want your car washed, you have to go to an EPA-approved federal facility and have a Haz-Mat team do the cleaning, costing you a week's or month's salary? More laws will have some effect, but more laws are not the answer. The only thing more and more laws do is make more and more people criminals. Don't think so? In Ohio (and other states) smoking in any public building or business, or within 30 feet of the primary entrance to a public building or business became illegal last year. Fines run from between $100 to $2,500 dollars. Other than the occasional fracturing of a speed limit, I've always followed the law...now, I'm a criminal.

I don't want anyone to misunderstand, I HATE pollution, I hate litter and those that toss out their trash to be carried off by the wind. That there are lakes and ponds where I can't eat the fish I catch because the water has been poisoned by man-made chemical pollution INFURIATES me. The reason I go to a state park every year for vacation (other than it's been a family tradition for almost 60 years) is because the EPA doesn't know the lake exists...when you go to the EPA website and look at the lakes they have listed and the dangers of eating the fish from there...THIS LAKE ISN'T THERE! I can fish 24/7 then gorge myself on my catch and not have to worry about PCBs, lead, mercury or anything of the other pollutants that I can't even spell or pronounce. But again I have to ask: "Where does it end?" In California, there are aftermarket or performance auto parts that are not legal for use: EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE NO EFFECT ON, OR EVEN REDUCE HARMFUL EMMISSIONS, just because CARB hasn't 'approved of them.' From what I'm to understand, getting CARB approval is an extrememly expensive undertaking-even for a large-scale manufacturer. They won't even bother to test your car if they see a forbidden part, you automatically fail. And that makes sense how? In Ohio (from my experience), as long as you still have the catalytic converter and the "Check Engine" light is off, your car is tested and it passes or fails based on actual emmissions levels.

I can't condone killing a forest to save a single tree. I can't see the benefit of scrapping ALL cars built before an arbitrary date, because some of the ones from that era that are still running are "polluters."

Knee-jerk reactions by a single-minded group of people that understand less than half of what they think they do, will not solve the problem. People who think all food should be organic, all machines not human powered or powered by solar, wind or water produced electricity should be immediately eliminated are NOT the ones we want making the decisions affecting ALL of us.

When will rational and reasonable thinking take over to solve the ecology problems? When will people realize that arbitrary banning and illegalization is not the ultimate and only solution.

Where WILL it end?

[Sprzout]

Re: Going Green?

Have to tell you but thats an EPA law not just San Diego thing.

Wow...The way that the "city ordinances" made it out to sound, it was not an EPA law, but just something that they could fine you for $50 for violation of it.

I find it odd that perhaps 90% of the mobile detailers that I see don't do this already, because it'd be really, REALLY easy to find the ones that are violating this law simply by going around to their businesses and making sure that they have the proper equipment. If they don't, they could be fined/shut down for not having it. It's not like it'd be too hard for the government types to do so; simply look in the phone book/online for the people who are advertising mobile detailing. These detailers are going to advertise because they need the business to come to them, right?

[AeroCleanse]

Re: Going Green?

Not to get too far spun off topic, but...

California (San Diego County specifically) has made it tougher for mobile detailers to do business. Now, any mobile detailer using a pressure washer MUST use some sort of reclamation device to capture their wash water in, and then empty it into a sewage treated line (not a storm drain). In theory, the pressure washer solutions have more chemicals that can cause damage to the ocean life, since San Diego storm drains empty out to the ocean.

Have to tell you but thats an EPA law not just San Diego thing.

[Sprzout]

Re: Going Green?

Not to get too far spun off topic, but...

California (San Diego County specifically) has made it tougher for mobile detailers to do business. Now, any mobile detailer using a pressure washer MUST use some sort of reclamation device to capture their wash water in, and then empty it into a sewage treated line (not a storm drain). In theory, the pressure washer solutions have more chemicals that can cause damage to the ocean life, since San Diego storm drains empty out to the ocean.

The flaws I see with this, though, are that 1) when it rains, all of the oil/gasoline/transmission fluid/road grime etc. that is already ON the road gets lifted up and carried - you guessed it - straight into the storm drains, and 2) the city ordinances being enforced on car washing seem to only apply to mobile detailers that use a pressure washer! I could not find anything that would apply if you used a hose & sprayer, along with a bucket of soap, to wash off your vehicle, and then let the runoff go into the gutter & storm drains. Assuming the soap is the exact same soap going through the pressure washer as the soap used in a bucket wash, I can't understand the mentality behind pressure washing needing to reclaim the water vs. a bucket wash & hose rinse...

[kellyinkc]

Re: Going Green?

Rant on Kevin! I do not buy the GW theory. I remember a Ice Age was coming not long ago. That does not mean I advocate dumping used motor oil down the sewer, I recycle it. It is just that the weather prophets can't get a 7 day forecast right yet the computer models for GW for the next 100 years are right?????

Kelly

[Kevin Brown]

Re: Going Green?

I have a friend that is in the trucking business.
Primiarily, he works in hauling and oil-field related stuff.
He deals with hazardous waste clean-up, crude-oil spills, etc.

He buys several products from this company:

http://www.newpig.com/en_US/main.jhtml

Their products are diverse, and are available in flat-panel form (like a giant paper towel), or in tube-form (like a sausage-link).
Some are designed to remove oil while letting water pass through, some designed for anti-freeze, some pick up all liquids.

They work great.
For example- You could use the tubes, strategically placed on the cement. As you're cleaning an engine bay, undercarriage (or other hazardous area) of a vehicle, the residue hits the ground, & floats onto/into the tubes. As the waste comes into contact with the tube, it traps the hazardous stuff, while letting the water pass through. I have used these before.
Or, you may opt for the tubes that catch oil & water... Leaving the area completely free of fluids.

Then, deliver the tubes to an appropriate hazardous waste area of your local dump.
Errr, I mean, Environmental Waste Facility.
Use a fuel-powered vehicle, human-powered bicycle...
Or even implement a 'human-chain' delivery system!

[Kevin Brown]

Re: Going Green?

For Sale:

1970's era CHILDREN'S WINTER PARKA.

Guaranteed to keep you warm and dry in below freezing temperatures.

If memory serves me well, it was purchased through my elementary school with funds derived from our bi-annual newspaper-drive. Scientists at that time had PROVEN that, due to our polluting ways, mankind doomed itself into a winter wonderland.

As a responsible society, we must protect the children, right?

THE ICE AGE IS COMING! THE ICE AGE IS COMING!

[Kevin Brown]

Re: Going Green?

And the remnants of our eco-friendly efforts get blasted into outer space?

RANT AHEAD...

I see no way around first removing the unwanted mess and then disposing of it somehow (or somewhere).

In the 1970's, I remember VIVIDLY how BAD it was for man to chop down trees simply to make paper bags (Which we used to carry our pesticide-laden groceries home from our capitalist stores).

So, a HUGE effort was forced upon us mean people to switch to PLASTIC bags, because we would save trees, the inks wouldn't wash into the ground at the landfills, and the plastic would essentially be non-invasive.

Now that we've completely accepted plastic as the 'responsible' method for carrying groceries, the plastic bag is an evil product because it does NOT easily decompose, it floats in water, which sometimes end up being eaten by living creatures. That part is sad.

The next thing around the bend is heavy-duty recycled plastic and/or paper carrying bags, or perhaps the reusable cloth carry bags- Which most of the time seem to be made in China. Unfortunately, they're half way around the world from the pollution machine (aka USA).

SO!- The bags must be made with what is either similar to, borders on, or what actually IS slave labor, in factories that pollute 1000 times more than ours do, which happen to send their pollution into the air, onto the ground, and into the water. THEN!- It all gets transported to the loading docks in non-eco friendly trucks, shipped half way around the world in a diesel-burning ship (which happens to DUMP most of the man-made waste into the ocean), and then finally re-shipped to its destination here.

Now- DOES THAT SOUND ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY TO YOU?

[DogParkGuy]

Re: Going Green?

Or you could just use some absorbent material under the engine compartment to catch and absorb most of the runoff.