Exterior Dilema

[magnus]

Hi all!

I'm heading for the wonderfully beating sun of Southern California for a few days of vacation — San Diego to be specific. I will have to park my new car outside over the 5-day stay and need some advice.

Here's the problem:

After a couple of months of problems with a local body shop and a paint repair to my hood, I am now having to wait 90 days before I can do anything to the hood.

Let me explain. I took the car in to have a deep nick taken car of (insurance). Initial results were great, but the body shop caught an error they had made by trapping a piece of dirt under the clear coat that wouldn't sand out.

Since then, the body shop has not been able to get the clear coat right. Over a 5 week period, and as many attempts to repair, the clear coat kept coming back with scratches.

After threatening 'further resolution' to the problem, the owner spent several hours doing the job himself, with the same results. The clear coat would sand and polish smooth, but once out in the sun for a couple of hours, the clear coat would shrink and sanding marks would show up.

The body shop contacted their Dupont rep., who suggested redoing the entire clear coat on the hood, but not polishing or sanding for 30 days (just now up), and then waiting another 60 days after that before personally polishing or waxing the car.

I specifically spoke with the Dupont rep. and asked if doing the rest of the car, and skipping the hood would be okay. He suggested waiting on the whole car, else it might look funny and/or not match up layers.

Whether all that is true or not, here's my question (finally):

Since I'm going to San Diego, with the car in the sun for 5 days, what can I do to help protect the car?

I am getting ready to go outside and wash it real well before the trip down (9 hours), and would like to take whatever steps suggested before leaving in the next day or two.

Thanks for your help!

[2000]

I was always told you could polish with #5, but he would be the expert. beside I would do what he says in case the problem persits he can't blame you for doing something wrong.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Exterior Dilemma

Originally posted by magnus
Hi all!

Since I'm going to San Diego, with the car in the sun for 5 days, what can I do to help protect the car?

I am getting ready to go outside and wash it real well before the trip down (9 hours), and would like to take whatever steps suggested before leaving in the next day or two.

Thanks for your help!

Meguiar's always recommends that you follow your painters or the paint manufactures recommendations as far as how long to wait before applying a wax.

According to what you wrote above, the Dupont Rep has asked you to wait a total of 90 days before performing any polishing or waxing procedures to the car.

For this reason, I would follow their recommendation to the T. If the paint cannot be corrected to your satisfaction after their recommended waiting period, then I would think that it would be their responsibility to correct the problem to your satisfaction.

As far as protecting your car's finish while you're in San Diego goes, because the have asked you not to apply any products to the finish, again, I would comply with their requests. If possible, park the car under cover such as a carport. If this is not possible, then I would leave it exposed and only wash it and in the case of an emergency, (Bird Dropping), I would use either water from a hose or a quick detailer to remove the contaminant to hopefully protect the finish from damage.

If they have requested that you only use products that are body shop safe, in other words, safe for a body shop environment where fresh paint is applied, then you can safely wash your car with Meguiar's M-0016 Hi-Tech Wash and for a quick detailer you can use M-3416 Final Inspection.

Both of these products are body shop safe and safe for fresh paint during the recommend cure time.

Hope this helps...

Mike

[magnus]

If they have requested that you only use products that are body shop safe, in other words, safe for a body shop environment where fresh paint is applied, then you can safely wash your car with Meguiar's M-0016 Hi-Tech Wash and for a quick detailer you can use M-3416 Final Inspection.

Both of these products are body shop safe and safe for fresh paint during the recommend cure time.

Now that I didn't know. I have NXT Car Wash. In the product description on Meguiar's main website, I do not see anything that says it is body shop safe.

Should I assume it is not, and see if I can find some #16?

[magnus]

I forgot to add something; I have a thin, cheap cloth car cover. I usually use it for my Mustang and haven't noticed any scratching. Would using it in So. Cal. be of any benefit?

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by magnus
Now that I didn't know. I have NXT Car Wash. In the product description on Meguiar's main website, I do not see anything that says it is body shop safe.

Should I assume it is not, and see if I can find some #16?

Some of our other car washes are body shop safe and safe to use on fresh paint. The important point I wanted to try to make was that because your painter and his DuPont Paint Rep, have asked you not to apply any polishes and/or waxes to the finish for the first 90 days, what they are trying to do is to reduce any variables that could affect the curing of the finish and the long term service life of the paint. (I'm kind of guessing on this, but what other reason could there be?).

Typically, painters give this kind of advise because they don't know how much their customers know about car care. So they just make a blanket request, asking you not to put anything on the paint. In your case, they do not understand that you are hanging out on a Meguiar's discussion forum and Meguiar's manufactures plenty of body shop safe, (i.e. fresh paint safe), products that can safely be used on fresh paint during the curing process.

But because they don't know or trust you to use a safe-for-fresh paint product, they just ask you to not put anything on the paint.

While they have asked you to not apply any polish or wax to the finish, they surely must understand that you will want and need to wash the car in order to prevent dirt and contaminants from building up on the finish.

As such, I recommended the M-00 Hi-Tech Wash because it's formulated specifically for using in body shops and it is a wash they, your painter and the DuPont Paint Rep, should recognize as a product that would be safe and beneficial for use on your new paint.

I will find out which of our other car washes are body shop safe, but any PBE store should carry some #00 Hi-Tech Wash, or be able to order it for you. We don't always list all of the features for all of our products because sometimes this will confuse people.

Car wash is a good example. Many people don't understand the term Paintable, or Body Shop Safe, so to list that as a feature on a product marketed towards consumers would more than likely just confuse them unnecessarily.

M-0016 Hi-Tech Wash

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by magnus
I forgot to add something; I have a thin, cheap cloth car cover. I usually use it for my Mustang and haven't noticed any scratching. Would using it in So. Cal. be of any benefit?

Yes and No.

(The below assumes that the car in question is being parked outside in the open)


The benefits of a car cover

The car cover will protect your car's finish from the UV rays from the sun. It will also prevent dirt, dust and other contaminants from landing and accumulating on the surface. Both of these are good things.

The drawbacks of a car cover

On the other hand, if you car will be parked outside, any wind in the area has the potential to blow the car cover around and potential instill scratches. If any dirt or dust is trapped between the car cover and the finish, this could instill even more scratches, if the cover is not secure in all areas.


If we drill down a little deeper into the subject of a car cover and bring into the equation that the car cover is being used on a new/fresh paint job that has previously had curing problems, and, we further add to the mix the fact that the painter and the Paint Rep. are asking you to limit what you do to the finish for the first 90 days, then here are two concerns as they apply to using a car cover in your situation:

1) If there are problems with the finish after the 90 days and they discover you have been placing a car cover over the car, it's possible they could argue that the problems with the paint was caused because you covered the car with a cover and prevented the paint from fully curing.

Their logic being that the car cover will have acted to seal the car up and thus prevented the fresh paint from fully and completely curing.

Of course you could argue that the car cover is permeable, and that air is able to freely pass through the material.

How easy or how difficult the people your are dealing with may or may not make the above an issue, only you can answer that from your experience with dealing with them, I'm just trying to paint a worst case scenario.

2) If there is a problem with the finish after the 90 days have past and they discover you have been placing a car cover over the car, it's possible they could argue that by placing the car cover over the car you prevented the sun from warming the car and helping to fully cure the finish. This of course is an extreme, doomsday scenario, and probably not likely, but a possibility?

It might be worth a phone call to the painter or the Paint Rep, or both and ask them what they recommend you wash the car with for the first 90 days, and if they recommend you cover the car with a car cover.

If they have been hard to deal with over this issue, then get it in writing.

Hope this helps...

Mike

[magnus]

Perfect!

Just what I was looking for. Thanks for your help Mike!

I was debating the same issues, though not quite as technical or thought out. I appreciate the feedback!

---

As far as washing goes, I'm not sure I can stand letting it get even filthier over another 60 days. To me it is already bad (it's white, so it really isn't that bad), and I'm just itching to get it taken care.

In light of your recommendations, I will conclude that it is just safer to leave it alone. As far as the San Diego sun is concerned, maybe some 90° heat will bake it up real nice. It's due to be polished (30 days) so when I take it in next week, they won't have excuses.

All this, just because I wanted a really nice, clean car to fly down to San Diego in. I still haven't seen one of these on the road yet in my area: 2004.5 Volvo S40 2.4i.

Thanks again!

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Perfect!

Originally posted by magnus
Just what I was looking for. Thanks for your help Mike!

I apologize for not answering sooner.

As far as washing goes, I'm not sure I can stand letting it get even filthier over another 60 days. To me it is already bad (it's white, so it really isn't that bad), and I'm just itching to get it taken care.

I would definitely wash it. Dirt and other contaminants will deteriorate the brand new finish on your car, especially considering you don't have any type of wax protection.

In light of your recommendations, I will conclude that it is just safer to leave it alone. As far as the San Diego sun is concerned, maybe some 90° heat will bake it up real nice. It's due to be polished (30 days) so when I take it in next week, they won't have excuses.

I never asked, but I'll guess that the paint they applied is a basecoat/clearcoat system as such it is highly likely that it is a catalyzed paint, meaning it chemically cures as well as cures through solvent evaporation. As such, it will only get more difficult to sand and buff with time. Each paint system has a sweet spot, a period of time somewhere between after the last coat is sprayed on before the point of no return when the paint fully hardens. This sweet spot is when the pant responds well to sanding and buffing, especially the buffing procedure.

It's always easy to sand paint, (i.e. instill scratches), it's not always easy to remove your sanding marks. That's because as your paint hardens over time, the paint becomes less workable or less buff-able.

All this, just because I wanted a really nice, clean car to fly down to San Diego in. I still haven't seen one of these on the road yet in my area: 2004.5 Volvo S40 2.4i.

Thanks again!

Nothing wrong with liking what you drive...

Mike

[Mike Phillips]

magnus,

We're holding a detailing clinic for the Zone 8 Porsche club this Saturday, if you can swing it, why don't you plan on attending?

It starts at 8:30 am

Here's the link with the pertinent information,

Zone 8 Porsche Club Detail Day at Meguiar's

We have lots of people driving up from San Diego to our clinics all of the time, the traffic up isn't bad at all. I can't vouch for the traffic back. I'll pack you an extra nice goodie bag!

Mike