Swirl 101 / confused what to use when

[Tim Lingor]

Hey Roger,

I would try #82 Swirl Free Polish, then #81 Hand Polish and topped with NXT. I know you will love the finish!!!

Tim

[hirosh]

hey roger,

i hope your head isn't spinning by now.

i just realized that you are in canada and what i was telling you was from the US Meguiar's site. doh! i hope that didn't confuse you even more.

let me see if i can help clarify things up.

1. wash - use a good car wash soap like nxt wash or gold class wash.
2. clay the surface - really good to do one time. claying will remove any junk on the surface. a good test is to put your hand in a plastic sandwhich bag (like a zip-lock bag) and run your hand over the surface. if it isn't smooth, you should clay. trust me, it'll make it feel like glass!
3. surface prep - here is where you would use a cleaner polish where you are trying to lessen the effect of the scratch. in terms of products, you would use stuff like scratch-x, dc paint cleaner, body scrub, #80 (on meg's canada site, these are from the surface prep section).
4. polishing - this is where you want to use a "pure polish" or glaze. this is where you are filling in the scratches and replinishing the oils in the paint. the only product i can think of is #7 show car glaze. the others in this category i'm confused on.
5. protecting - this is where you'll use a wax such as #26 Hi-Tech Wax or NXT.

now to answer your question, have you tried the scratch-x yet? if not, try it and see what kind of results you get. you might have to really rub it hard to see any results. if this doesn't do anything to lessen the scratches, try something like #82 or #9. you might want to even try color-x. don't be discouraged if the swirls aren't removed right away. for mine's, i did it by hand and it took a lot of work. and sometimes it takes a few attempts by hand to finally get rid of most of the swirls.
after you remove most of the swirls, THEN i would go on to the glaze/polish. remember, the glaze/polish only FILLS in the swirls, not REMOVE or LESSEN them. of course, you could try experiment and use a glaze/polish and see what happens. if the swirls are gone after using a glaze/polish, you're set to top it off with a good wax. if not, then you'll have to go to the surface prep step. as far as what is a good glaze/polish, i've heard #81 is good for clear-coat paints. #7 is also good, but it can be a pain to work with because if you use too much, it will streak.

i hope this clears things up. if not, keep asking questions. don't worry, we've all started in teh same place at one point or another.

do you think you can take a picture of the swirls? that be helpful. anyways, good luck! and post pictures of your results!

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by hirosh
We've all started in the same place at one point or another.

Amen to that...

I started out knowing nothing and I'm still learning new things all of the time. It's important to ask if you don't know, share what you know, and have an open mind to new ideas and new products.

Mike

[rting]

Dear all,

Pictures ... ah well, I am one of those people who is too cheap and too lazy to invest in a digital camera (but I drive around in a black Porsche ) that have enough resolution. I just have 640x480 pixels low resolution pictures from my DV camcorder's camera capability - not good at all. May be I can borrow one somewhere ...

Scratch X report - believe it or not, the car has been in the garage for just over 5 hours now and the hood still feels like a warm cup of tea so did not tried on the hood. Tried Scratch X on select areas of the tailgate. Removed some but the deeper swirls and light scratch. Certain scratches had me applying Scratch X and the car was swaying a little to my firm rubbing. Unfortunately, those deeper scratches / swirl did not go away. I waxed all areas after Scratch X just so there is some interim protection until I can get to those areas again.

Pro-detailer visit ... went to a local pro for my Volvo's detailing and to make a long story short, he gave me this to try:
Pearl Guard Paint Sealant
Tested this stuff on an area (of the black Porsche) which had been through light Scratch X rubbing and it took out a lot of swirls with NO rubbing! Just apply and buff.

For now, I think (and please comment on my judgements below):
1. I may have to invest in a PC machine (C$300 + 14.5% sales tax arrrrrrrrrr ....!) as per one of the above post ... so that the Scratch X job can be done faster.
2. I think the Pearl Guard stuff actually fills the swirls somewhat? Similar to meg's #20 Polymer Sealant?
3. I will need to figure out a faster way to get through this otherwise I have to aside a whole day - may be two to do it?

[hirosh]

drives a porsche yet no digital camera? but wouldn't you want a digital camera so it would be really easy to show everyone on the internet how nice your porsche looks? heh heh i'm just joking, don't worry about it.

the one thing about removing swirls is that sometimes you get a few, sometimes you don't. but i think that your investment in a PC (Porter Cable dual-action polisher) is a great idea. everyone who has bought and used one has said it was one of their best investments. i wouldn't know because i'm saving up for one. anyways, i think that is a good idea.

as far as scratch-x goes, i heard it should only be used by hand. something about how using it with a machine can make it all gummy or something. maybe you can try Tim's suggestion of #82 followed by #81 followed by NXT?

interesting about that pearl guard stuff. that is a good guess that it is filling in the swirls. if the swirls reappears later on, then yeah, it fills in the swirls.

heh heh removing swirls will be faster once you get your PC! or so i heard. but hopefully other people can chime in here and give their opinion on what is good to remove swirls with a PC. i think the meguiar's usa website has something on removing swirls with a PC. here

but good luck!

[rting]

Well, did the hood with Scratch X and got all but the stubborn / deeper scratches. I reckon that I got about 70-95% of the swirls depending of which part of the hood I am looking at.

So the next step (for the goal of 99% removal) is:
1. Continue the scratch removal with Scratch X / Deep Crystal Step 1 and even more elbow grease UNTIL ALL deeper scratches and swirls are gone. Will probably need a PC unit.
3. Start using glaze / pure polishes / Deep Crystal Step 2.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

[rting]

Ok, got some results here ... use a 300 watt halogen light about 3 feet from the tailgate and try to show (with my less than 1 megapixel 640x480 camera that is built-in to my DV) that:

1. directly under the license plate photo (two photos) both are before Scratch X.
2. photo (one photo) under the license plate but also left of the license plate after a few applications of Scratch X.

See my gallery of this forum or go to the URL listed below.

It seems that with A LOT OF PATIENCE, I can even improve on the situation as per the "after" photo. Also, these images are not the worst ones as depending on the angle of the light, you'd see less or more swirls ... however, the hood seems to be in much better shape after a couple of rounds of Scratch X and the right hand side of the tailgate is a not in a good shape.

See: my gallery in this forum

Comments? Next Steps?

[hirosh]

good results!

and that is one sweet looking porsche!

what next? well, i should first ask, how do your arms feel?
but after you've removed the swirls from one section, you should then follow up with a glaze and then a wax. if you can get NXT, you can also use that instead of a glaze and wax. i've seen really nice results with NXT on black. i think mike has done some write-ups on NXT on black. so yeah, after you removed most of the swirls, follow up with a glaze and wax, or at least a wax. this will provide some protection for your paint because stuff like scratch-x and deep crystal step 1 don't provide any protection for the paint. and considering how big your porsche is and how much time you have, you might want to do these steps (scratch-x, glaze, wax) in sections. but if you have a day or two to clean the car, then you can do the whole car. btw, if you haven't put any protection over these areas that you removed the swirls from, you should put at least a coat of wax on as soon as possible.

also, you could try that Pearl Guard Paint Sealant over the areas that you just removed the swirls from. or even experiment and see if it can fill in some light swirls.

do you have any friends who has a lot of car care products? if so, you might want to ask for their help because they might have a product that might work well in removing these swirls, and allows you to buy the products you need. or maybe you can find a fellow Meguiar's Online member in your area that would be willing to help. you can also check out that autopia.org website and see if anyone there lives near you and is willing to help. i think i've seen some from vancouver, b.c.

but great job so far!

[rting]

Originally posted by hirosh
good results!

and that is one sweet looking porsche!

what next? well, i should first ask, how do your arms feel?
but after you've removed the swirls from one section, you should then follow up with a glaze and then a wax. if you can get NXT, you can also use that instead of a glaze and wax. i've seen really nice results with NXT on black. i think mike has done some write-ups on NXT on black. so yeah, after you removed most of the swirls, follow up with a glaze and wax, or at least a wax. this will provide some protection for your paint because stuff like scratch-x and deep crystal step 1 don't provide any protection for the paint. and considering how big your porsche is and how much time you have, you might want to do these steps (scratch-x, glaze, wax) in sections. but if you have a day or two to clean the car, then you can do the whole car. btw, if you haven't put any protection over these areas that you removed the swirls from, you should put at least a coat of wax on as soon as possible.

also, you could try that Pearl Guard Paint Sealant over the areas that you just removed the swirls from. or even experiment and see if it can fill in some light swirls.

do you have any friends who has a lot of car care products? if so, you might want to ask for their help because they might have a product that might work well in removing these swirls, and allows you to buy the products you need. or maybe you can find a fellow Meguiar's Online member in your area that would be willing to help. you can also check out that autopia.org website and see if anyone there lives near you and is willing to help. i think i've seen some from vancouver, b.c.

but great job so far!

Well, hirosh,

My arm feels fine ... did put some Pearl Guard Pait Sealant on the polished area so I am hopeing to get to other areas. It is time consuming ... ... the reason that my arms felt fine was that I had to stop as I believe Scratch X is a petroleum based product and my own skin is actually taking a lot of abuse! My finger tips' skin begin to crack.

I figure that today's rain will give me another excuse to wash the car again and then start on the sides.

I still don't know who would carry NXT in my area but will keep looking.

So I suppose it is normal to have the arms feel tired? The thing is when you read the instructions on the back of Scratch X, it does not really say that you should check to see if the swirls / scratch is gone - or at an acceptable level - before you move on. I mean, it took me a very long time to just decide on which product to use in browsing on the internet and reading this forum. That is, it would be ideal IMHO if there are more videos on Meg's website so that it will help the decision process.

[fiberrich]

I'm still a little confused.

Is #81 a pure polish or a cleaner/polish?

From what I can tell #81 is a cleaner/polish and #5 and #7 are pure polishes.

If the above is true, then my questions are as follows:

I read that a lot of people are using #81, instead of #7 because it's easier to apply/wipe off and is the better product for clear coats. If I did a major detail already and I just want to polish/wax in between as a "maintenance detail", will #81 take off my previous coat of wax protection?

Should I use #5 or #7 for when I want to do a quick polish/wax after a wash vs. when I do a complete detail (wash, clay, clean, polish, and wax)?

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

Meguiar's #81 Hand Polish is a pure polish with no cleaning abilities. It was designed with the rest of the Body Shop series with BC/CC in mind. As such, it is easier to remove compared to the #7 Show Car Glaze but otherwise gives similar results.

Meguiar's #5 New Car Glaze is also a pure polish that is designed for areas that have higher humidity.

Meguiar's #3 Machine Glaze is also a pure polish but designed to be applied by machine.

Either way, none of the above will hurt any preceeding coats. In fact, it will help to add more depth to the look of the paint.

Tim

[rting]

Got and used the #7 Show Car Glaze already. The local superstore (Canadian Tire) does not carry #3, #5, or any of the #80, #81, #82, etc.

Not sure if I am using the #7 properly as this is the first time I use it. I shake well, use a dry (not damp) pad, applied couple of droplets to the clothed pad, hand rub it on the surface with light pressure, buff away with another clean terry cloth. Often, I can see the terry cloth is just re-spreading the glaze so I still see very light haze of the glaze that almost look like swirls. Also, most of the glaze seems to penertrate the cloth and got soaked up by the sponge pad inside. I ended up re-buffing - more than buffing off just wax - to produce a non-hazed surface.

The above use of #7 are all done indoors. Suggestions?

[fiberrich]

2hotford, thanks for the reply. I see a lot of people saying it's a pure polish; however, a couple of things makes me wonder if this is true.

1. The bottle has two things that makes me think otherwise. a) The front of the bottle shows a marker for light cleaning on an abrasion scale b) It states on the back of the bottle that it is a cleaner/polish.

2. It seems that Meguiar's uses the term "glaze" on the products that are "pure polishes" (like #5 and #7) and the term "polish" on the products that are combination cleaner/polishes. However, I just took a look at Speed Glaze on their web site and it says it cleans, and polishes ,*and protects*!!! Go figure!!! Speed Glaze is a one-step product!?!?!?

Seems like Meguiar's states other manufacturer's use the terms glaze/polish incorrectly/interchangeably, etc. yet, it seems they are doing the same thing. (using glaze and polish interchangeably).

I'm not trying to nit-pic Meguiar's. I'm trying to learn their product line and what to use where in the 3-step process, but it sure is confusing if they can't even be consistent with their own terms for their own products. (glaze vs. polish)

In addition, Meguiar's recommends a three-step approach in detailing/maintaining your car (minus the wash and maintenance steps), but if you look at the pro line cleaning product category on their web site, the products are all pretty much very agressive products. So by definition, you would be using one of these products in your step one (cleaning), which I don't see many people using (probably due to their agressiveness).

Again, not nit-picking, but I'm trying to understand the product line and it seems they themselves don't have the products necassarily categorized and/or labeled correctly. Either that or marketing isn't writing their product labels and/or web information correctly. Or maybe there just isn't a clear definition between cleaner/glaze/polish?

Help! Can someone clear this up for me?

[rting]

Originally posted by fiberrich
2hotford, thanks for the reply. I see a lot of people saying it's a pure polish; however, a couple of things makes me wonder if this is true.

1. The bottle has two things that makes me think otherwise. a) The front of the bottle shows a marker for light cleaning on an abrasion scale b) It states on the back of the bottle that it is a cleaner/polish.

2. It seems that Meguiar's uses the term "glaze" on the products that are "pure polishes" (like #5 and #7) and the term "polish" on the products that are combination cleaner/polishes. However, I just took a look at Speed Glaze on their web site and it says it cleans, and polishes ,*and protects*!!! Go figure!!! Speed Glaze is a one-step product!?!?!?

Seems like Meguiar's states other manufacturer's use the terms glaze/polish incorrectly/interchangeably, etc. yet, it seems they are doing the same thing. (using glaze and polish interchangeably).

I'm not trying to nit-pic Meguiar's. I'm trying to learn their product line and what to use where in the 3-step process, but it sure is confusing if they can't even be consistent with their own terms for their own products. (glaze vs. polish)

In addition, Meguiar's recommends a three-step approach in detailing/maintaining your car (minus the wash and maintenance steps), but if you look at the pro line cleaning product category on their web site, the products are all pretty much very agressive products. So by definition, you would be using one of these products in your step one (cleaning), which I don't see many people using (probably due to their agressiveness).

Again, not nit-picking, but I'm trying to understand the product line and it seems they themselves don't have the products necassarily categorized and/or labeled correctly. Either that or marketing isn't writing their product labels and/or web information correctly. Or maybe there just isn't a clear definition between cleaner/glaze/polish?

Help! Can someone clear this up for me?

Hi fiberrich.

I started this thread knowing NOTHING and I have to say that:

1. I washed my neglected Volvo and needed to remove scratches so I bought Scratch X - somewhere through this thread - and applied it to the trunk and prior to that had applied Turtle Wax's scratch and swirl remover for the hood and the roof. To my surprise, in both cases, the application pad took out a lot of "dirt" and the pad did not had the color of the liquid applied.
2. I just used #7 - as seen in the immediate above post from me, it multiple rebuffing requires makes me guess that this #7 is very oily or oil like.
3. I have to admit that I am totally confused in the beginning, but now, I have results to show after trial and error. One of my wife's friend thought that my Volvo had a different color after the cleaning - or should I say use of Scratch X and Turtle Wax swirls and scratch remover.

Hope this helps.

[Mike Phillips]

In an attempt to make this easier... how about we first start by reading this,

Meguiar's 5-Step Paint Care Cycle

Mike