#7 after #80 balling up

[woodenshoes]

I previously completed the 5 step program on a failry weathered 1986 Volvo finishing with GC. I decided to start all over as I felt like I should clean up the surface a little better with #80 and I wanted to try NXT. Prior to begining i washed the car with dish soap to strip everything off to start over. So far i have gone over the whole car with #80 and am very pleased with the results. As I really want to make the paint as good as possible i am folowing up with #7 before going to wax.

I have only done a small part of the hood with #7 and am finding the polish drys up very fast and starts to ball up even while I am still trying to work it in. I don't know if I really need the #7 step but the small piece done so far really looks good, it's just very hard to get the product on and work it in. Thoughts

[woodenshoes]

bump

need help as i am waiting before carrying on with the #7. thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[Murr1525]

How are you applying the #7?

[woodenshoes]

Originally posted by Murr1525
How are you applying the #7?

Hi, I am using a cotton (no name) applicator pad. I would like to use my buffer (not a PC, just a cheap Simonize 8") but don't think it will work very well given the problem so far.

[Accumulator]

It sounds to me like the finish is already saturated with the trade secret polishing oils from the #80 and that's compromising the #7's ability to gain a toe-hold.

If you weren't seeing a benefit from the #7 I'd say "skip it" or else recommend #5 instead (which seems to work better than #7 when allowed to dry more).

As you still see a benefit from the #7 I'd probably just continue on but a) use less #7, b) try to buff it off even sooner, and c) work smaller areas at a time to help facilitate the earlier buffing.

Oh, and this is single stage paint, right? My '84 240 was, but I don't know when they switched. Not that it really oughta make a difference but I'd expect the ss to absorb more oils than basecoat/clear and to benefit more from the #7.

[woodenshoes]

Hi, thanks for the reply. While I was waiting I did 1/2 of the hood with the #7 using an MF which made it a little better but not much, still seemed to be a chemical thing as you suggested. Pulled the car out in the sun and really could not see much difference, maybe slightly better on the #7 side but I was probably looking for it.

This car has the CC finish, so not sure if that made a difference. I also did 1/2 of the hood with a second pass with the #80 by hand using an MF for the wipe (had been using terry) and checked it in the sun to see if I was causing some of the slight micro marring. Once again no real difference so proceeded with the #7 test as above.

Would something like #82 or #3 with less abrasive power help with the micro marring after using #80? Part of the problem is probably the Simoniz buffer and applicator pads I am using, will have to get a PC and some proper pads soon!!

[Murr1525]

#3 is going to be pretty abrasive, you would be looking at #82 or #9 for a milder cleaner than the #80.

They should help reduce micro-marring, and you could always change to a milder pad as well.

Maybe #80 or #82 with a finishing pad instead.

[Murr1525]

BTW, I weas re-reading your first post.. no need to use Dawn, or that sort of thing.

It is like taking a step backwards, by pulling oils out of the paint, rubber, and plastic, then you have to go back and polish and dress everything just to put the oils back in.

Better to have not taken any out, and just use the regular car wash soaps, clay, cleaners, and then when you polish/dress things, you will be adding even more oils.

Dont take a step back and a step forward, take 2 steps forward.

[woodenshoes]

Ok, I thought that the old wax would make a mess so tried to start clean. I actually got that from the Zaino site as they recommend doing this before starting out with their products.

For the future is there any time the LSP would make a mess or change the chemistry ie: NXT over a carnuba or will the use of the polish take care of anything previous and leave the surface ready to wax?

TIA

[Mike Phillips]

Sounds like you're using too much product?

The only way a product can ball up is if there is something wrong with the product at the time you pour it out of the bottle, or if there is literally too much product on the surface.

Only use enough product to lubricate the surface and work in an even application. Pure polishes are not like waxes, you're not trying to apply a coating of product or layer of product that you'll let dry, you're trying to --> work in <-- the product and then wipe it off.

Hope this helps...

[woodenshoes]

Hi Mike, maybe balling up was a bad term to use. It would turn thick as you rubbed and would stop my hand as I worked it unless I increased pressure. I was using such a small amount that in spots I was almost rubbing all of the polish off as I went along.

I noticed that if I could keep a slow easy movement going it was better than if I sped up even a little it would thicken/get sticky? Even with a slow speed it was thickening/getting sticky so it wasn't entirely speed related. Hope this makes more sense.

[Mike Phillips]

Let's go over the basics,

Clean surface, either washed or wiped down
Clean applicator pad, I prefer to use foam pads for hand application
Shake the bottle well
Product is coming out with a uniform look and consistent
Apply "Enough" product, not too much, not too little, your pad should be gliding over the surface spreading and pushing product around
Not too hot, pure polishes should be applied to cool surfaces in the shade
Apply to a section at a time and then remove

[Accumulator]

Originally posted by Murr1525
#3 is going to be pretty abrasive, you would be looking at #82 or #9 for a milder cleaner than the #80. ..

Minor correction: the #3 is functionally nonabrasive. It's sorta a different version of #7 that can be worked more aggressively without drying out.

Yeah, every now and then #80 has too much initial bite for a given paint (Mike recently experienced this on an Audi IIRC and I experienced it on a RM brand repaint). When this happens, switching to a softer pad won't solve the problem, though it might still be a good idea (note that the 8006 doesn't contribute much cut). Using #82 or #9 or even #66 would be my suggestion.

woodenshoes- OK, roger on the b/c paint. That's almost certainly harder than Volvo's earlier single stage, which was *VERY* soft. IMO the b/c paint helps explain what's going on with the #7; I'm more convinced than ever that between the #80 and the #7 you've simply saturated the finish with all the polishing oils it can accept. If I were in your shoes I'd probably move on to my LSP and see how a panel or two looks after that.

[woodenshoes]

woodenshoes- OK, roger on the b/c paint. That's almost certainly harder than Volvo's earlier single stage, which was *VERY* soft. IMO the b/c paint helps explain what's going on with the #7; I'm more convinced than ever that between the #80 and the #7 you've simply saturated the finish with all the polishing oils it can accept. If I were in your shoes I'd probably move on to my LSP and see how a panel or two looks after that. [/B][/QUOTE]

tried taking some scratches out with scratch-x and found out how hard the cc is. used a cotton pad with alot of "attitude" and still could not get any scratch completely out. yeah, gave up on the #7 after trying half the hood without seeing any discernable gain. your theory makes sense as the polish almost seemed to be drying/thickening on contact. have since put 2 coats of nxt on and it looks pretty good. still very slight micro marring evident but the average person probably would think it's really good. i think moving up to a PC and investing in more MF cloths combined with switching to a back and forth stroke from circular during polishing should eliminate the last bit of haloing.

[Accumulator]

Originally posted by woodenshoes
tried taking some scratches out with scratch-x and found out how hard the cc is.. have since put 2 coats of nxt on and it looks pretty good. still very slight micro marring evident but the average person probably would think it's really good. i think moving up to a PC and investing in more MF cloths combined with switching to a back and forth stroke from circular during polishing should eliminate the last bit of haloing.

Yeah, some clear is very hard and IMO it doesn't pay to get too stressed over minor flaws that nobody else notices anyhow. Sounds like you're on the right track now.

One thing though, the direction (back/forth vs. circular) shouldn't matter as long as you're not instilling any new marring. Consider that the PC moves in ~circles (well, random orbits) and yet it doesn't cause problems compared to moving in straight lines. The general advantage to straight lines is that if you *do* cause marring it'll only be really visible from one viewing angle (compared to a circular scratch that'll always be visible).