silicone free

[jimmycrackcorn]

Hey. I'm interested in silicone-free products. What has Meguires got in the way of wash and polish products that are ****** based and silicone free?

[Mike Phillips]

Hi jimmycrackcorn,

Welcome to Meguiar's Online!


The compounds, paint cleaners, cleaner/polishes and pure polishes in our Professional Line are body shop safe and silicone free.

I believe all of our car washes are body shop safe and that would mean they are silicone free.

I noticed when you joined your e-mail address goes to London Honda in Ontario, Canada. What are you working on?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: silicone free

Originally posted by jimmycrackcorn
Hey. I'm interested in silicone-free products. What has Meguiar's got in the way of wash and polish products that are ****** based and silicone free?

Never heard back from you jimmycrackcorn?

The astricks in front of the word based in the question your wrote above are there because I'm guessing you used the word

t e f l o n


which is a banned word on this forum because of legal issues with huge companies with deep pockets. By the way, we don't offer any products that use ** t e f l o n** because it's a gimmick.

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[jimmycrackcorn]

Hey. Yeah, I'm working for a dealership up here that's making a big push on accessories and upgrades. We've got open house tips and tricks nights happening up here as well, and I've been put in charge of picking a product line to commit to. The powers that be want SLICONE FREE everything, so give me the straight goods.

What's up with the banning of the word T.E.F.L.O.N.? Is it a trademarket word like Kleenex?

And if it's a gimmick, then what do you folks recommend? (Also, WHY is it a gimmick?) Everyone knows silicone = bad for shops like us, so give me the pitch on your product and WHY we would switch. Seriously. Treat me as ignorant. Give me the whole schpeel starting from scratch. I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

[black240sx]

I would expect products containing T-e-f-l-o-n to have the same concerns in a body shop as do products containing silicone. ie: paint isn't going to stick well to either of them.

[the other pc]

Originally posted by jimmycrackcorn
....What's up with the banning of the word T.E.F.L.O.N.? Is it a trademarket word like Kleenex?...

Tefl** is a registered trademark of DuPont. It's a brand name. The product most people think of when they hear "Tefl**" is that slippery plastic coating on cookware. That plastic, PTFE, is also made by other manufacturers but DuPont's version carries the name "Teflo**".

As a trademark DuPont can do anything they want with the word and call anything in the universe Tefl** if they feel like it. They could spit on a brick and call it Tefl** if they wanted to. As it is they use the name as a label for a family of fluoropolymer and fluorotelomer compounds that they manufacture.

Part of DuPont's business is selling chemical products to customers and working licensing deals with those customers who advertise that their products contain DuPont ingredients. (Note that rival chemical manufacturing giant BASF is trying to get a piece of that action with their "We don't make a lot of the thing you buy, we make a lot of the things you buy better" ad campaign.) Marketing, marketing, marketing.


PC.

[jfelbab]

Originally posted by jimmycrackcorn
Hey. Yeah, I'm working for a dealership up here that's making a big push on accessories and upgrades. We've got open house tips and tricks nights happening up here as well, and I've been put in charge of picking a product line to commit to. The powers that be want SLICONE FREE everything, so give me the straight goods.

What's up with the banning of the word T.E.F.L.O.N.? Is it a trademarket word like Kleenex?

And if it's a gimmick, then what do you folks recommend? (Also, WHY is it a gimmick?) Everyone knows silicone = bad for shops like us, so give me the pitch on your product and WHY we would switch. Seriously. Treat me as ignorant. Give me the whole schpeel starting from scratch. I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

GR Ansul of DuPont's Car care products Division has stated:

The addition of T eflon flouropolymer resin does nothing to enhance the properties of car wax. We have no data that indicates the use of T eflon is beneficial in car waxes.”

Ansul also notes that,

Unless ****** is applied at 700 degrees F (371 degrees C), it is not a viable ingredient, and it is 100 percent useless in protecting the paint's finish.

Then their marketing department got into the act and told the chemist to be still while they moved to try to make more money off of their brand name. So yes it is a gimmick.

You might want to do a google on T eflon health risks. The stuff used to make this coating, PTFE, is now in the blood of 95% of the world. According to the EPA's scientific advisory group studying this stuff, it is a likely carcinogen.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by jimmycrackcorn
Hey. Yeah, I'm working for a dealership up here that's making a big push on accessories and upgrades.

The powers that be want SLICONE FREE everything, so give me the straight goods.

Everyone knows silicone = bad for shops like us, so give me the pitch on your product and WHY we would switch.

Thanks.

Silicone causes fish eyes if not removed from the surface right before painting, in other words, silicone should not be brought into areas where body work is being done or paint booths where cars are being painted.

You say you're looking for products for your dealership? Dealerships often have body shops but they also have areas where they resell what we would call consumer products, that is car washes and car waxes for your customers to take care of the cars you're selling your customers that already have paint on them.

Silicone being bad for paint is a myth, silicone is inert it doesn't hurt anything, it creates surface tension when it's on the surface and this is causes fresh paint, being sprayed onto a panel, to not want to stick to the area the silicone is present on.

If your looking for body shop products for your paint shop, then we do offer these and they do not contain silicone, these would be products like compouns, paint cleaners, cleaner/polishes and pure polishes and we've been making these since the 1920's, longer than most/all the other wax companies you're probably ever going to come across.


Here's something I wrote on silicone for the Meguiar's FAQ,


18. Are products that contain silicone bad for my car's finish?


No. In fact, automotive paints worldwide contain silicone as an ingredient to help the paint to spray and flow more smoothly.

Most of the concerns people have about silicones and products that contain silicones stem from the problems associated with them in the early 1950's. Back then, 40 and 50 years ago, if the surface wasn’t properly prepared, residual silicones on the surface or in the shop environment, could cause surface adhesion problems. The most common among them is a defect referred to Fish Eyes in the paint.

Fish Eyes are a small, circular craters that appear in the finish where the paint piles up in a circle surrounding a point on the surface that contains some type of contaminant that creates high surface tension, usually some type of wax, grease or silicone. The reason freshly sprayed paint does this is because contaminants like wax and silicone tend to create high surface tension and do not allow the freshly applied paint to stick or adhere properly. Instead of laying down flat over the top of these contaminants, the paint moves away from these contaminants, forming a ring around them that has the visual appearance of what is historically described as a "fish eye".

Knowledge of chemistry, as well as most other technologies have evolved and grown substantially since the 1950's (just look at modern cars and personal computers as two very visible, common examples of how technology has progressed). The problems painters encountered 50 years ago are more easily addressed with today's modern paint prepping chemicals, shop environments, paint additives, and most importantly, education. Back in the 1950's, there were no formal training programs available for young men and women entering the automotive repair industry. Most of the time, a person would start out at the bottom, sweeping and cleaning up, and slowly move up the ladder through knowledge gained by on-the-job training. Today there are hundreds of certified schools that specialize in formal education for the automotive industry. This includes paint manufacturers, who provide in-depth training for anyone who uses their paint systems.

Most professionals in the refinishing industry understand that a majority of the paintwork they do, day-in and day-out, is on cars that have been waxed using products that contain both wax and silicone.

Professionals in the body shop industry always perform the necessary preparation work required to insure that "fish eyes" are not a problem. This includes using special degreasers, wax and silicone removers that effectively remove these substances from the surface or chemically alter their molecular structure in such a way to insure they pose no problems. If there is ever any question or doubt about the surface to which new paint is going to be applied, painters will include a Fish Eye Eliminator into the paint, which insures a finish free from fish eyes. Interestingly enough, Fish Eye Eliminator is typically a special silicone additive.

There are many kinds of silicones available for use in car care products, the one thing all silicones have in common is they are completely inert. This means they do not react in either a negative or a positive manner with any substance they come into contact with, including your car's paint.


Silicones are primarily used to modify or enhance a specific characteristic of another ingredient in a Meguiar's formula. If the silicones Meguiar's relies on didn't offer some type of positive benefit to the product, or the end-user and the results they are trying to achieve, Meguiar's wouldn't include them in their formulas.

For example: The use of some types of silicone in a formula acts to make the product easier to both spread and wipe-off, thus reducing the effort required to apply and remove the product, which then helps to reduce the potential for application or wipe-off inflicted scratches. That’s a benefit to you.

Meguiar's has been the leader in creating paintable, body shop safe products because of our history and continuing leadership in creating state-of-the-art formulas for use by new car manufacturers as well as the collision repair and custom painting industries. Because of our expertise in creating wax and silicone-free products for fresh paint environments, you will find many of our paint cleaners and polishes are paintable and body shop safe.


Because Meguiar's is a major supplier to the automotive finishing industry, both to OEM (factory level) and the re-finishing industry (collision repair, body shops and custom paint shops), Meguiar's can offer you a complete selection of paintable products including at least one polish that contains a paintable polymer for increased protection.

The fear and confusion surrounding this single ingredient, silicone, is an ongoing problem people run into when they get caught up in the hype and misinformation spread from person to person, generation to generation and now-a-days, on the internet, which exaggerates the problems surrounding the use of silicones in car care products.

There are some sources that even go so far to say that silicones are harmful to paint. This is not only dishonest; it calls into question the credibility of that resource and any and all claims they make. Silicone is inert. It cannot harm paint, let alone anything else it is formulated into, or sitting on top of, especially in the form of a coating of wax.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by jimmycrackcorn
so give me the pitch on your product and WHY we would switch. Seriously. Treat me as ignorant. Give me the whole schpeel starting from scratch. I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

We don't have any sales pitches... we have great products that our customers love and our customer service and support for the car hobby is unrivaled in the industry.

[gb387]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
We don't have any sales pitches... we have great products that our customers love and our customer service and support for the car hobby is unrivaled in the industry.

I am not a Meguiars employee but a VERY satisfied customer so I thought I would chime in... I know when I buy anything Meguiars its going to work, I wouldn't buy anything else, there are no "state fair" gimmicks just good products and good people. The selection of products is above and beyond.

[the other pc]

jimmycrackcorn,

I'm assuming that you're in charge of picking a line to sell over the counter in the parts/accessories dept. Is that right? I ask because the body shop is usually a separate operation. While choosing Meguiar's would serve either side ideally the mix of products/lines would be different. The body shop is doing heavy duty processing while the consumer is doing maintenance and light reconditioning.

Meguiar's has been an integral part of the body shop and manufacturer's paint line businesses since early in the last century. They know paint, paint maintenance, and how to support painters and painting. Major auto manufacturers around the world use Meguiar's products on billions of dollars worth of cars every year for maximum performance (and profitability) on their production lines.

Meguiar's products are also heavily used in the worlds of concours competition and museum restoration.

Meguiar's brings that level of know-how and committment to their consumer line as well as providing unmatched customer service.

They'll make your life easier and more profitable as a retailer by providing you with the highest quality and most complete line of chemicals, tools and accessories available.


PC.

(And no, I'm not a Meguiar's employee, just a fan.)

[Erik Mejia]

I'm kinda glad we don't use the word T****N, as a wrestler I wouldn't want to support the murder of Dave Schultz in any way.

[Scottwax]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
We don't have any sales pitches... we have great products that our customers love and our customer service and support for the car hobby is unrivaled in the industry.

Mike might not give a 'sales pitch' but as an enthusiast and professional detailer I'll give one.

Meguiars 80 series Body Shop Pro polishes are both very effective and user friendly. Nothing finicky about them. Used as directed, you will achieve excellent results. In addition, when bought by the gallon (as I am sure your dealership would), Meguiars polishes are very cost effective.

I've been using Meguiars products in my detailing business about 12 years now.

[TKNOVA]

GO MEGUIARS!! How i would love a g100 in Australia

Been using there products for 7 years and even if a car needs to be painted or repaired i have found that all wax's are pretty easy to remove with the right chemical.