Suggestions for improving my plan?

[Pontisteve]

Normally when I detail and want it to come out nice (for example, my personal car or a relatives car), I use the following steps:

Wash
Medium clay bar entire car

Dewalt variable speed buffer with waffle foam pad and #66 Quick Detailer to "rub out" black marks and light duty problems.

Craftsman 9" random orbital buffer with terry cloth bonnet and #66 Quick Detailer over entire car

Turtle Wax Platinum series wax by hand (Yeah... I know, but it seems to do very well and lasts a really long time).

This combination is not real expensive, doesn't involve dozens of steps, makes the car slick as a whistle, and provides a very decent shine that lasts. And my choice of top coat wax seems to last about 6 months overall, and beads up for around 4 - 6 washes.

Can you recommend to me any improvements for A. Making my personal car absolutely perfect, and B. Making a more average car look better with a similar amount of work?

P.S. I've tried many different cleaner waxes, and Meguiars professional #66 is simply the best and easiest to use. It doesn't do much in the protection department though. One wash and no more beads.

[LiquidBlack]

If you can, I'll suggest replacing the turtle wax with meguiar's discontinued #16 wax, that is if you can find someone to sell you a can.

[sneek]

wouldn't m20 or 21 out last m16?

[tripmachine]

if you have the budget for this I would recommend getting the meguiars g100 porter cable along with some meguiars #80 and apply some nxt tech wax after that... that setup will be 149.99 + another 50 dollars or so for extra things you will need..... your cars will always come out better than how they are coming out now!..... i can say that not even seeing the cars you do so it's well worth it.

[Pontisteve]

Meguiars #80 appears to be a speed glaze, that's paint shop safe (no silicone I suppose). Im not real up on glazes. What's the difference between them and cleaner waxes? I always thought they were for just adding shine somehow. Something I probably should want. I always sort of figured that the shine should and does come from how right you have the paint itself, not exactly from the wax.

On the flip side, I don't have a car that looks like it's dripping wet with gloss either. Good... but not jaw dropping.

[Murr1525]

You really want to think in terms of cleaners, polishes, and waxes. And around Meguiars, glaze=polish.

The #80 is a cleaner/polish, so it is able to clean tha paint and add some polishing oils.

Things like Cleaner Waxes actualy are cleaner/polish/waxes, and so they cover all 3 steps.

You are correct that most of the gloss/reflectivness, etc comes from having the paint in its best shape. However, both cleaner/polishes like #80, and Cleaner/waxes can improve the paint itself. It just depends on your needs as to which you might choose.

Remember, multi-step products usualy arent as effective as single-step products. For the wettest look, you might follow up #80 with a pure polish, and then a wax.

[Pontisteve]

Thanks for the info. I've always viewed the buffing steps (not all necessary on each car) as Clay bar, Compound, Cleaner, Polish, and Wax. Most cars don't need the ruff stuff compound, so I find it cleaner, polish, and wax. The thing is that most cleaners such as #66 seem to have polish built into them. I'm sure this is because they need the oils to lubricate the cleaners and prevent scratching.

By the way, I see cleaners as a chemical cleaning, not an abrasive cleaning. When you feel them in your finger, they're without grit.

So, the #66 is a cleaner/wax, but I have personally found that it has cleaner for sure, some polish but not enough to make it look dripping wet, and some wax. Although the wax is not enough to even talk about. It lasts about a day. I think its probably not possible for them to put all 3 ingredients in there and make it come out right, because the wax is too... you know, waxy. It would get in the way of the other stuff working.

So I use #66 as a cleaner/polish and hand wax it later for actual protection and longevity with something like a carnauba. That turtle wax Im using seems to create a hard shell, something that pure carnauba doesn't seem to be able to duplicate.

Remember, multi-step products usualy arent as effective as single-step products. For the wettest look, you might follow up #80 with a pure polish, and then a wax.

Does Meguiars offer a separate cleaner and polish in a professional line? And thanks for the info. I never knew for sure what glaze was. I always thought it was to make it look wet, but never realized that meant it was a polish.

[Murr1525]

Yeah, its kind of tricky going between different companies terminology, and even different time periods terminology. I was of course refering to Meguiars terminology. Some companies use 'polish' to mean wax. So you have to just get a product for each step, and let them call it whatever they want.

You have an interesting point that the more delicate cleaners might need the oils in them to prevent extra maring. You can notice that Meguiars products like #66, #80, ColorX, ScratchX, etc are all abrasive, yet they still feel like a lotion. They even feel the same as chemical-only cleaners like DC#1 and the consumer Cleaner/Wax. Only the cleaners for rotary use tend to have abrasives you can really feel, like the #4 for instance.

I have never actualy used the #66, so I am not sure how it reacts, but I have never seen complaints either. It is possible that it isnt meant to bead water.

I like ColorX on my daily driver by hand, and always follow it with Nxt, or other pure waxes to improve the looks. Noting wrong with following up a cleaner wax with a pure wax.

The only pure cleaners in the Pro-line are for rotary use. Products like #66, and the 80-series are meant for comparatively light cleaning and a business environment, where combining steps is a good thing. People who use it themselves to get the highest results will focus on #82/#80/#83 as cleaners to remove defects, and then use a pure polish to get the best results from the polish step as well. #81, #7, #5 are all pure polishes, as is DC#2.

[Pontisteve]

The only pure cleaners in the Pro-line are for rotary use. Products like #66, and the 80-series are meant for comparatively light cleaning and a business environment, where combining steps is a good thing. People who use it themselves to get the highest results will focus on #82/#80/#83 as cleaners to remove defects, and then use a pure polish to get the best results from the polish step as well. #81, #7, #5 are all pure polishes, as is DC#2.

That's the problem! Too many of the same thing. It would take trying them all to figure out what you want, as Meguairs gives too many choices for similar products. Lots of choices would be good, if Meguiars would tell you more description of what each is for, and compare them to the others.

I have used #66 for years. I started out with the non-pro bottle of it (cleaner/wax), but switched to 66 when I discovered it was the same thing, but made for a buffer so it won't clog the pad. It works great for anything but really bad paint flaws. It is a chemical cleaner, not an abrasive cleaner, so it doesn't really scratch on it's own, but still gets the job done. It has some polish, but not much. This is probably for lubricating the cleaner. It has very little wax, and is likely just for hazing up and wiping off. It don't last. I would say it's perfect for using as a cleaner only. I'll try using a glaze or polish, then a wax. That might give me more depth.

Can you polish over wax, or do you have to strip the wax using dawn or something first?

[Murr1525]

Well, the #82/#80/#83 are similar, in that they are all cleaner/polishes.

But #82 is very mild, #80 is mild, and #83 is a medim strength cleaner, #83 being the most abrasive to remove the most defects. Naturaly, the application method can change the abrasivness, but they are recomended for the PC. The 'Abrasive Scale' on the label of each bottle helps show this.

Now pure polishes are another story.. they do kind of require trying to see what you might like best.

This thread might help a little comparing #80 and #66.


#66 vs. #80

You can certainly polish over wax, or polish and wax over wax, if that was your question. People with show cars may actualy use a polish as their last step, if they think it looks better than wax on top. It will of course wear off quickly, but for a show car it is just for looks.

[Pontisteve]

That's a very informative thread. Thanks! It sounds like I need to try some of that M80. I would much rather have cleaner and polish with a hand wax afterwards, than cleaner/wax. I theorize that the luster of the job would be much better with more polish and less wax in the cleaning step.

Any experience with M8301? I rarely use it, but it's my next rougher step for a rougher car. For really rough, I break out a rubbing compound. This is usually for a single-stage old paint job that is just a worst case scenario. For slightly rough clear coat cars, I use the M8301. For everything better than that, I use the #66. But I'll be buying some M80 or similar to try that! Thanks!

[Murr1525]

Well, keep in mind I am also not familiar with the Craftsman tool you are using. #80 and #83 will both work with it, but I am used to results from a PC, with the Meguiars pads, so I am not sure what differences you may find, if it will work exactly the same, etc.

It certainly is more agressive then #66 or #80, and like #80 it is more focused, so it should work better as well.

[Pontisteve]

The Crafstman unit I have is just basically a cheap 9 or 10" plastic orbital. They're all about the same unless you buy a GEM. They're about 16 pounds, and that's what the pros use. They're the Caterpillar of orbitals.

What is a PC?

[Murr1525]

You'll see mention of the PC, DA, or G-100 around here. Basicaly it refers to the Porter Cable Dual Actaion Polisher.

G-100a

[Pontisteve]

You know, I have an orbital 9 or 10", I have a big buffer, the Dewalt variable speed (nice!). But I wasn't sure if I needed one of these or not. I was looking at it recently, as well as the Cyclo dual head polisher. That one is no doubt pro quality, and has two small pads that overlap eachother.

The PC looks a little small to be doing the whole car with. But looks perfect for fenders and smaller spots, and also near windshield molding. That orbital of mine is like a bull in a china shop near weatherstrip. Ultimately, I get it all over the rubber and the wax don't like to come out. On my own car, I take that easy-lifting vinyl painters tape and mask the weatherstrip so I can get right up to it.

So tell me how the PC is, and why I should buy one. The way you hold it looks odd too, one hand on the rear body? Also the speed sounds high even at 2500, but at 6500? Do you use that speed??