Is this the "new" DA for the future??

[kellyinkc]

Hey, got Griots Garage the other day in the mail. Sat down and looked through it. Now last months issue had a Porter Cable polisher this time there is a new one. It's red and black. It did not say who made it. I called them and it has a 6 amp motor vs. 3.7 on the PC. Also said orbit pattern is tighter and higher RPM. Plus a cooling fan to cool off the backing plate.
Left link out. Would like input. Mike and Tim also. Thanks guy's.

[tron1974]

Is it this one?
griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?&SKU=10925 Griot's Garage Random Orbital [edited for commercial link. Please refer to MOL Forum Rules; 2hotford]



The description from their site:
"The Griot's Garage Random Orbital spins at higher orbits per minute, has a smaller polishing pattern, a rheostat speed dial for polishing and waxing speeds between 4,000 and 7,000 orbits per minute, an internal fan to cool off the backing plate (thus, no heat build-up in our pad, or on your paint), a higher torque motor to eliminate stalling, an ergonomic top handle, and an easy-to-reach side on/off switch, plus your hands will enjoy much less vibration from the orbital! Enjoy the best!"

[Tim Lingor]

Hey Kelly,

Very interesting. It has an almost identical body to my Makita Grinder but with the bail handle off of my Makita 9227 rotary buffer. Intertesting....

Tim

[Mike Phillips]

This is very interesting.

My first thought, is this a new tool built to Griot's specs specifically for polishing paint?


My second thought, is this a new tool for some other industry that Griot's has incorporated into their catalog to use for polishing paint.


Either way it doesn't matter, the idea is good and I want one.

The problem in the past with the rotary buffer is that it has too much power and unless you were experienced, (time), and skilled, (time plus talent plus passion), you could get into a lot of trouble real fast.


The issue with the Porter Cable polisher is that it is so safe that it can be ineffective in the areas that some users try to duplicate the results that a rotary buffer is cable of.

A dual action polisher on steroids is what is needed, perhaps this is it?

[Mike Phillips]

Just to note, there was a time Griot's Garage proclaimed their vented backing plate was designed to help air flow to keep temperatures cooler while buffing on paint when the truth was the holes on the backing plate were to vacuum wood dust as a person was sanding as the Porter Cable started out as a tool for sanding wood.


Also, I have a Porter Cable sander that oscillates at a much higher speed but because it has no torque it's relatively useless for removing paint defects.

[tron1974]

I'm in the market for a new polisher, my Walmart $20 10" polisher is a pain in the butt to use.

A polisher that has both the torgue of a rotary and the ability to be as safe as a DA would fit my bill perfectly. I'm afraid to spend $150 on the DA and then find out I should have spent that money on a rotary tool.

I sent an email to them people at Griots to see what they say.

I do have one question though. What would the benefit be having the abilty to cool the tool with a fan? Would this be to attempt to cool the surface as you worked on it?

[Mike Phillips]

If you work with electric tool for hours the tool will get hot. If you work for hours with the dual action polisher the head of the motor will become very warm, I've had the head of the polisher so warm you could call it hot.

I'll guess the fan is to cool the motor since it's internal. The surface does get warm if you polish it long enough, but not hear as warm or even hot like it will if you're using a rotary buffer. In my honest opinion, there is no need with the current popular model to cool the surface as you work, and even if the new tool creates more heat, cooling the surface would not be a priority as it would still not get as warm/hot as it would if you were using a rotary buffer and traditionally, historically, we have never cooled the surface when using rotary buffer, detailers just pay attention to the task at hand and quit buffing or move to a new area if the area they're working on becomes too hot.


If you look at this picture closely,




The contraption surrounding the backing plate looks like most/all the other vacuum units for similar tools for collecting dust when sanding wood.

I'll bet a dollar this is a wood sanding tool.

[kellyinkc]

Tron 1974,
Yes that is it. I left link out on purpose. Very interesting.....
Was gonna order ADS package #2, now???? Kinda want that.


Kelly

[tron1974]

Yeah, I didn't realize the link was not appropriate. Sorry for that. No big deal though.

I think come spring, I will get the #2 package from ADS. There isn't much sense in getting it now as it is winter here. I figure if I get it and use it, and want something a bit more then I can sell it for $100 or so and not lose too much.

I'm no professional and plan on doing my cars every 2 weeks or so. I think for me the DA will fit the bill perfectly.

-Jerry

[Mike Phillips]

Paul, aka the other pc has just shared this link with me via e-mail

http://www.mosay.com/proinfo.asp?pl_id=173

Plus he shared a number of threads on a number of different discussion forums.


Small world this Internet thingy...

[kellyinkc]

Yes it is Mike!!
Tron: It's winter here too... just had a mixed bag of precip.
Waiting for spring too.
Thought I share it. Will probably stay with the PC. Have not decided yet. Is there any thing else on the horizon for polishing???

[kokketiel]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips

http://www.mosay.com/proinfo.asp?pl_id=173

Our UK / Australia members will be happy to see that this unit has 230V / 50Hz listed as the power source, in addition to 110V/60Hz...

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by kokketiel
Our UK / Australia members will be happy to see that this unit has 230V / 50Hz listed as the power source, in addition to 110V/60Hz...

We need to find out first if the tool is effective. Notice I didn't use the word [i]works/i]. There's a difference.

Lot's of tools jiggle and buzz but to remove defects out of paint requires more than just jiggling.

Check out some of the comments in this thread...

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10319

Including the one I made,

Here's the one I have, I think it's the exact same model without the vacuum attachment on it.



Here's the label, sorry it's out of focus, I usually take a couple shots to make sure I have one good one I can use and this time I only snapped one and crossed my fingers.




Interesting thing, if I turn it on at the 6.0 setting and hold it in the air, no pressure on the face of the pad it does not rotate at all. If I put light pressure on it it begins to rotate with some power. If I increase power it stops rotating.

You're the engineer Paul, explain what's happening?

I've used this to wax a car before and it works, I prefer the regular dual action polisher, (G100), and after using it for a while you'll really start to notice the length of the body.

[tron1974]

I emailed the G site that sells this and here is what I got back...

Hello Jerry,
Thank you for taking the time to e-mail us your questions. The new orbital we are offering is a fantastic machine that actually out performed the Porter Cable model we used to carry. Our new polisher has a larger motor and more advanced cooling system than the Porter Cable model, producing more torque and a cooler pad. The orbit pattern is also smaller (1/8 inch) allowing for very precise and effective polishing. Also, the ergonomic top handle is very helpful for controlling the machine and producing the best possible detailing results. We have compared this unit extensively to the Porter Cable model and our model consistently outperforms the competition. I'm not familiar with the Dewalt, Hitachi, or Mikita model as our product testing did not include any of those models.

I followed up with this email...
Is your new polisher essentially a random orbit sander that has been converted into polishing duties? Were the cooling system holes that you have there for use with a vacuum originally? What type of torque differences are there between the Porter Cable and yours? You mentioned you have compared this extensively to the PC model, how has it outperformed that model? Also, what is your warrantee and does it come with a backing plate?

and received this response...
Thanks for the quick reply. The cooling system was not designed for use with a vacuum, there are ventilation holes built into the back plate (which certainly comes with the unit) and a circulating fan built into the machine just below the backing plate. This allows for the pad to orbit much more efficiently and cooler. There is no feasible way to quantify the lbs per square inch difference in torque between our machine and Porter Cables. Our machine (at top speed) orbits at 7,000 rpm where the PC model orbits only at 6,000 rpm. Our orbital outperforms the PC model because it orbits faster, has more torque, transmits less heat from machine to pad, has a smaller orbit pattern, and during our testing we were unable to stall the pad, no matter how much pressure we applied to the machine. Our orbital comes with a 180 day guarantee for customer satisfaction and a lifetime guarantee against defect and failure.

I hope those guys don't get mad that I am posting their response here.

I'm just trying to figure out the best product for my dollar when I get one of these DA polishers this spring.

[Setec Astronomy]

So, still no answer on whether it has a removable backing plate and whether it would use the same backing plate as the G100.