First PC try with #80 and results.

[mpmiller37]

Ok, this was my first attempt to remove swirls/scratches on my black car with my new PC and #80 using Sonus SFX polishing pad. First attempt over the surface, I said "****, it looks the same or worse", was beginning to get discouraged. So I did it again. A little more speed and a little more pressure. Yes, second time was much better. So I'm moving this thing about an 1-2 inches per second and applying some pressure. Took me almost an hour to do the whole trunk, 2 passes with the #80. I'm thinking, man this is taking too long no wonder people like rotaries. The whole car would have taken me an entire day, just to polish away defects.
Posted 2 pics below, the first shows the swirls near the bottom of the picture and these specs that I never noticed. The second pic shows no swirls but still these specs all over the surface.
Questions:
1. Because I feel like I spent too much time with this, could I
move to say #83 or is it possible that as a newbie I will marr
up the surface ?
2. What are those specs ? The pictures do not show what they
actually look like. They are very tiny, like pin head tiny. I
didn't notive them until all the swirls were gone as I first
thought that I created them with polishing. You can't feel
them and they look like microscopic pits or dings. Can these
be removed ?

Ok, so now I'm getting obsessed with a perfect finish and my
wife says I'm out of control when I'm in the garage, in the dark, holding a drop light about 3-4 inches from the surface examining the paint. Am I out of control ?

[mpmiller37]

Ok, so how do I get these pictures to be bigger ??

[mpmiller37]

Retry those pictures ..



Notice the swirls at the bottom.



Swirls gone, but tiny pits or dings. They look much larger on this picture.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by mpmiller37
Ok, so how do I get these pictures to be bigger ??

You -->Right Clicked<-- and copied the URL Address for the Thumbnail.

Next time, click on the Thumbnail to bring up a full size image and the right click and copy the URL for this photo address.

Does that make sense?


(I fixed it for you)

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Retry those pictures ..

Originally posted by mpmiller37

Notice the swirls at the bottom.


Swirls gone, but tiny pits or dings. They look much larger on this picture.

Perefection is a worthy goal, but not alwasy quick and easy.

Also remember, your end-results will include a coating or two of wax which will take your results to a higher level.


This point is addressed rather well in one of the below threads...

Need Help! - How to Avoid Holograms?

How to Avoid Swirls and Holograms?

How to Avoid Swirls and Holograms?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: First PC try with #80 and results.

Originally posted by mpmiller37
1. Because I feel like I spent too much time with this, could I
move to say #83 or is it possible that as a newbie I will mar
up the surface ?

Did you have your speed setting on the 5.0?

How hard did you push down?


In most cases, unless the paint is as hard as glass, M80 will pull out fine swirls and scratches, a lot of the time if it's not it's because of technique.

We had a 67 Corvette at Meguiar's yesterday where the clear coat was so hard that M80 didn't touch very fine scratches, (not swirls, but straight-line scratches), we next tried the M83 and worked the product well for a few minutes and it removed these fine scratches.

I would suggest perfecting your technique with M80 first before moving more aggressive.

[mpmiller37]

I had the speed set on 5.5. The slower speeds seemed like a waste. I wanted to polish at 6, but then specs of polish started decorating the entire trunk and back window so I assumed it was flying off the pad. I pushed down with maybe 5-6 lbs pressure, not squashing the pad or bogging the machine down but pushing the pad down somewhat, and these sonus pads are a bit stiffer than the meguiars pad I have.

So I did the trunk and removed swirls. Any comments on the tiny pits/specs ? So how do I perfect my technique, aside from watching a professional ? Is going over the car 2 times with the saem polish considered standard practice, because this polishing takes some time and is boring, I'm just standing there. If I used a cutting pad with the #80 would it then need only need 1 pass, say followed by a milder polish ?

Mike

[mpmiller37]

Forgot to mention that I used 1/3 of the 32 oz bottle of #80 just on the trunk. Keep in mind I did 2 passes with #80 over the entire area. Does that seem like too much polish ?

[Accumulator]

The pits may well be some kind of etching, such as from acid rain. Whatever they are, I'd expect them to be beyond the capabilities of the PC and probably beyond sensible/safe removal anyhow.

I don't think you're spending all that much time, but I suppose it's all relative to what you're expecting. To do a trunk lid in an hour or so with just the PC sounds pretty quick to me. This stuff takes time.

Using a harsh pad with #80 isn't a good idea IMO. It's simply a fairly mild product that takes as long as it takes. I generally prefer to use more aggressive products before switching to aggressive pads (at least by PC).

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by mpmiller37
I had the speed set on 5.5. The slower speeds seemed like a waste. I wanted to polish at 6, but then specs of polish started decorating the entire trunk and back window so I assumed it was flying off the pad. I pushed down with maybe 5-6 lbs pressure, not squashing the pad or bogging the machine down but pushing the pad down somewhat, and these Sonus pads are a bit stiffer than the Meguiar's pad I have.

I don't have a lot of experience with the Sonus pads being a "Meguiar's Guy". Meguiar's doesn't recommend using our pads over the 5.0 setting as doing this over time will generate enough heat to separate the Velcro backing from both the foam pad.

So I did the trunk and removed swirls. Any comments on the tiny pits/specs ?

Seems to be a phenomena with some paints? I'm not sure why or how this happens but I have seen this also. In most cases, most people are very happy the swirls and scratches are gone and while they don't like the pits or holes that are now visible, they are still happy the swirls and scratches are gone.

My guess is the pits/holes are in the paint to start with and it's only after you have removed the swirls and scratches and restored a clear, smooth, defect-free finish that now your eyes are able to detect these imperfections.

So how do I perfect my technique, aside from watching a professional ? Is going over the car 2 times with the same polish considered standard practice,

Practice makes perfect and yes some people opt to go over each panel twice with one combination of products versus get more aggressive. This is something you will have to determine for yourself after testing a number of different products.

because this polishing takes some time and is boring,

In context with working with your hands... machine polishing is pretty fast.

If I used a cutting pad with the #80 would it then need only need 1 pass, say followed by a milder polish ?

Mike

As a rule, Meguiar's doesn't recommend using cutting pads on dual action polishers as the more aggressive consistency of the pad will tend to remove the defects, but it will leave the finish/surface dull and hazy. Most people cannot recover from this and instead post a thread to a forum starting with the word...

Help!

[LiquidBlack]

Very glad I read this thread, as it will help me understand more about DA polishers.

I was unaware of how much time it takes to remove swirls using #80. Very good information to know here.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Accumulator

Using a harsh pad with #80 isn't a good idea IMO. It's simply a fairly mild product that takes as long as it takes. I generally prefer to use more aggressive products before switching to aggressive pads (at least by PC).

This clearcoat finish on this re-painted 427, 1967 Corvette Stingray was as hard as they come. The finish in most people's eyes was flawless and swirl-free. There were however some fine straight-line scratches throughout the finish the the owner thinks he has instilled through normal waxing and wiping. His goal is 100% perfection.

He's been to our class before and brought his car back down for the Open House for Paul", event to get some help dialing a system to remove these fine scratches.

Previously he used M82 Swirl Free Polish and it had little or no effect on the paint.

We tested M80 to a small area with easy to locate straight-line scratches and it had no effect.

Next we tested M83 in the same area and it successfully removed the straight-line scratches but it left the finish looking hazy.

We then re-polished the area to remove the haze using the M80 again and then applied wax.

End result... a recipe the owner can now duplicate over the rest of the car for success.




The point?

Getting more aggressive with a dual action polisher may remove the defect, but it may also create a second problem to be dealt with using a follow-up process.

As mentioned numerous times on this forum, people are often times trying do a job using a dual action polisher what could be better done with a rotary buffer. Because they don't own a rotary buffer or realize that using one requires skill and experience then tend to push to the limits what a dual action polisher is capable of. This tends to result in people wanting to get more aggressive with the dual action polisher and what they don't understand is that getting more aggressive with a dual action polisher is usually not the answer, not the right direction and because of the oscillating action of the tool, it cannot do with the rotating action of the rotary can do.


That said, you will still get better results faster using a dual action polisher versus your 4 fingers pushing down on an applicator pad.

[mpmiller37]

After some reading, i was wondering if those tiny pits are acid rain damage ? How can I tell if its from acid rain ? Could product get into the pits amd make it look worse ? I can't feel a pit because they are so small but I suppose if I run IPA on them and they go away then it could be product in them ?

[Murr1525]

It is good to remember that removing defects does take some amount of time and effort. And since it is best to be gentle, this will mean longer times.

The key is to only have to fix it once. After that, maintaining is much quicker.