Priming a Pad

[sudsbyhubbs]

Priming a Pad

I found this advice on autopia by Kevin Brown and I'm curious about where he mentions priming the pad. Does he mean priming it with something like Final Inspection or is he talking about actually priming it with the product?

In a nutshell, a good procedure when using M105 with a foam pad for mild or final-polishing (rotary applied):

1. Prime the pad THOROUGHLY.
Rub it in with your hand. It'll take a bit more than you're used to applying. It takes quite a bit to load (more than a typical polish, as there's no petro-based oils or solvents to aid in spreading).
Take the extra time to completely cover the face and outer curved-edge of the pad. .

2. Apply a bead of M105 to the surface, pull it in, and polish at low speed (1000 rpm).
USING CONSISTENT MODERATE DOWNWARD PRESSURE, apply for 1-3 passes, or until the M105 is just starting to dry. Remove all residue. CHECK FOR HEATING OF THE PAINT. Most guys that polish with a rotary know how HOT the surface can get when using a finishing pad.

[Andy M.]

Re: Pad Priming

I can't speak for Kevin but I normally mist pads with some kind of detailing spray also.

Andy

[RDVT4ME]

Re: Pad Priming

I just sent an e-mail to Kevin to ask for his input here.

[PorscheGuy997]

Re: Pad Priming

Here is the first post:

Glad to give an opinion... thanks for contacting me weekendwarrior.

A quick call to Jason Rose of Meguiar's verified some thoughts I had about PRC. It was primarily designed to remove light to moderate defects with a rotary polisher. It had to leave the surface in very good condition while providing protection. It had to have a long application cycle but not sling, stick to the surface, or create lots of dust. It had to be easy to wipe away and not leave a white haze on textured plastics. If the shop using the product wanted to do a one-step application, it had to leave the paint looking pretty good once the protection went away. Finally, if a shop wanted to do a follow-up application with PRC, it had to further polish the surface, leaving no micro marring. A lot to consider, but overall, it seems that D151 comes pretty close to hitting the mark.

Now, just because Jason and the R&D team tailored this product for a specific type of detailing doesn't mean we shouldn't expect even more out of PRC, right?

I have some experience using D151 Paint Reconditioning Cream (PRC) but it's not my 'go-to' liquid. Therefore, I don't have the depth of knowledge that comes from using a product on a regular basis. However- I've used it a few times and I did test PRC prior to its release. I've found that increased downforce delivers impressive results. For defect removal I tend to use lower rpm and increased downforce when polishing with a rotary. The exception to this rule is when I'm using a compound to cut paint immediately after wet-sanding. To aid in leveling the paint, I run the rotary at around 1,800 prm and then back it down to 1,000-1,200 rpm to finish. Of course settings vary from car to car, but this is the norm for me.

When removing defects with the random-orbital, I use high OPM and a LOT of downforce. For final polishing, I drop the speed and continue to use a LOT of downforce (not as much as the defect-removal step, but quite a bit). I know that this is not the way things are normally done, but the most recent Meguiar's products to hit the market are using very different technologies (as compared to the older traditional style compounds and polishes). In the case of Meguiar's products, this technique has worked well for me with M86, M105, and D151.

I specifically asked about use of this product with Lake Country's Foamed Wool Pad (FWP). As I've only used the FWP a very limited amount, I cannot claim to know all of its idiosyncrasies. So- I just used it, and it seems to be a very capable pad.

I did a quick but thorough test on the fender of my 1994 Mazda pickup (original paint). I hardly ever polish or wax the thing- I just drive the wheels off it and wash it every couple weeks. Many times, I just hit it with de-ionized water and wipe it with a cotton towel (if there's time).

I took some pics- I know they're not the best, and the lighting is not ideal. The main thing is- I was able to easily remove moderate defects and leave the paint looking pretty good. Here we go:



Not great shots, but the fender is covered with light defects, and a few moderate scratches. I scuffed each side with Abralon 2000 and water.











Left side, shows paint as-is and the Abralon scuffing.


Right side, shows paint as-is and the Abralon scuffing.


Rotary, foamed wool, D151 PRC.


Prime the pad. Rub the PRC in by hand.


Have to add more... still some dry areas.


I think I use a bit more product to prime the pad than most guys. It's like priming a lawnmower that's run out of gas- pour some gas in the throat of the carb, pull the string until it starts. Whatever gas it doesn't use, it spits out the exhaust! Same thing with a pad prime- what the pad doesn't use for priming will sling off the pad... I'm just kidding a bit here, but there was actually very little sling (if any).

I think this is one area that is overlooked as not so important. Well, it is very important, and really makes a difference to overall performance.

Apply a bead and buff. Left side: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pad / 1,800 rpm / application time- 62 seconds.


Wipe clean, stripped 3x with Meguiar's Detailer Glass Cleaner (5:1 dilution)


Close-up shots.




Meguiar's W5000 Double-Sided Wool Cutting Pad. It's listed as an 8-inch pad, but edge-to-edge it's more like 10 inches. I guessed that I'd be using the pad effectively to the 8-inch diameter point.


Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pad. Looks like it's almost 8 inches (Lake Country's site shows a 7 or 7-1/2 inch pad. I guessed that I'd be using the pad effectively to the 6-inch diameter point.


Prime the pad. Rub the PRC in by hand.


Have to add more... still some dry areas.


A proper prime-job. This is a much bigger pad than the PFW pad.

[PorscheGuy997]

Re: Pad Priming

And the next one:

At this point I wanted to adjusted my polishing speed. To be fair, I figured that I should drop my speed when using the larger diameter W5000 pad. This was to adjust the velocity of the pad closer to the velocity of the PFW pad.

I used the PFW pad at 1,800 rpm. Usable area was estimated to be 6 inches. Using this formula:

RPM * C = V
where
RPM = Revolutions per minute
C = circumference <- Notice this is 2*π*r
V = velocity

I came up with: 1,800 (rpm) x 18.84 (6 x 3.14) (6" diameter times pi) = 33,912.

So, using the same formula, and a problem of: X(unknown rpm) x 25.12 (8 x 3.14) (8" diameter times pi) = 33,912 (same as the total of the PFW pad). Then, 33,912 / 25.12 = 1,350 rpm. My buffer had a speed-setting of 1,400 rpm available, so I used it. The velocity wasn't exactly the same, but close enough considering I was only guessing the diameter of the pad actually being used.

Forgot to show the bead of product applied, but it was a little more than the PFW side because the area being polished was a bit larger (needed the space for the larger pad).


Wiped clean, stripped 3x with Meguiar's Detailer Glass Cleaner (5:1 dilution). Sun shot of the PFW side. Noticeable swirl, but not quite as bad as it looks in the pics... Some of the 'swirl' is light refraction.


Sun shot of the W5000 side, stripped 3x with glass cleaner. Noticeable swirl, and it's obvious that the swirling is worse on this side.


Shot of the left, masked, and right. Swirls are noticeable, but pretty fine.




Time to fire up the random-orbital. I'm going to use a Meguiar's W8207 SoftBuff 2.0 Foam Polishing Pad.


Prime the pad. Rub the PRC in with your hands.






More PRC to polish with.


I polished the entire area (working time approximately 1 minute). Residue shot.


Wiped clean, stripped 3x with Meguiar's Detailer Glass Cleaner (5:1 dilution).




I felt that I could get a better polishing result. So, I used a specially-sized Lake Country pad that my friend ZoranC had built for his personal use. ZoranC readily admits that the foam and sizing is nothing new, but not all levels of aggressiveness were available in this diameter and thickness. So, he ordered them up! He's actually got six foam variations. I like them (so far I've only used three of the six). I think he had to order more than he can actually use, so maybe he would sell some if the demand was there.




I primed the pad, and worked the entire area again. Working time was approximately one minute.
Picture shows a stripped surface, wiped clean, stripped 3x with Meguiar's Detailer Glass Cleaner (5:1 dilution).






Now, I know that I've basically done a three-step polishing job. But!- I could really bear down on this pad, comfortably. Looking back on it, I should have heeded my own advice and PUSHED a lot harder when using the W8207 pad. The main point of the final application was to show how well the PRC performed. Impressive defect removal and a pretty darn good finish. I used a variety of machines and pads- You can choose how you wish to apply PRC. The best advice I can give is super-prime the pad, and increase downward pressure when polishing. Hope this helps.

[sudsbyhubbs]

Re: Pad Priming

So that settles that. Thanks for digging that up for me!

[TerryAdams]

Re: Pad Priming

That was an outstanding tutorial!

So, from now on we need to let others know if we *prime* the pad with water, QD, or the product we will be using. Sounds good to me.

I never primed my pads with that much M105, maybe that has been my problem, from the "get-go".?? Could this be related to the "dusting issues"?


D151 is a great product for well maintained vehicles and "quickie" details. I'm not so sure as to use it at 1800 rpm on a rotary. Might try it on a test panel. My comfort zone is between 1000 and 1400 rpm, with D151.


On another note: Kevin Brown (aka iamwaxman on autopia) has really got people thinking differently about M105. Some really GREAT info has been posted by him, and I need to try his techniques this weekend. Thanks Kevin for posting!

[Kevin Brown]

Re: Pad Priming

Thanks Bob for letting me know about this thread, and thanks Chris for doing all the work reposting the information here!

These guys are A-#1, top of the heap, best of the best, and tied for numero uno.

[Kevin Brown]

Re: Pad Priming

On another note: Kevin Brown (aka iamwaxman on autopia) has really got people thinking differently about M105.
Some really GREAT info has been posted by him, and I need to try his techniques this weekend. Thanks Kevin for posting!

Thanks for the kind words.

Regarding M105- I have sent my preferred method of applying M105 and M86 (via rotary and random-orbital) to several people that asked for advice (some I e-mailed directly because I felt that they were in need of it).

It's never posted it here (completely anyway) on MOL. Since the forum is owned by Meguiar's, I felt that it might be improper if advice was given counter to the recommendations of Meguiar's. A majority of the enthusiasts that use this forum are not professional detailers. Rather, they are car enthusiasts that really enjoy dialing in their rides. It's not a good idea to push an enthusiast into a situation that may cause more problems than they can clear up!

As a professional detailer, I mostly use the Professional line of Meguiar's products (Mirror Glaze Professional and Detailer). Should I decide to alter a product or use it in a manner that goes against Meguiar's recommendations (and the outcome is less than satisfactory), the responsibility lies with me. This is a regular occurrence for me- Trying to squeeze every last bit of performance out of a product makes me happy.

Lately, I've been lurking at some other sites, and if a situation arises that finds a Meguiar's user is not getting the results they could be, I chime in. Such was the case on this thread. After all, I am one of the biggest Meguiar's enthusiasts in the entire world (Man enough to admit it).

Now that there's a new line of fantastic consumer products available for the random-orbital (and M105's formula has been changed and is now recommended for use with a random-orbital), the idiosyncrasies encountered when using a G100/G110 machine need not be experienced. The new stuff is killer!

That being said, perhaps it would be okay to post the information I've sent to individuals over the past several months.

While some of the information may be outdated (relating to M105 mostly), some of techniques explained are simply good polishing-etiquette.

[asim_296]

Re: Pad Priming

Thanks alot Mr. Brown for your greatful tips.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Pad Priming

It's never posted it here (completely anyway) on MOL. Since the forum is owned by Meguiar's, I felt that it might be improper if advice was given counter to the recommendations of Meguiar's.

A majority of the enthusiasts that use this forum are not professional detailers. Rather, they are car enthusiasts that really enjoy dialing in their rides. It's not a good idea to push an enthusiast into a situation that may cause more problems than they can clear up!

Kevin = Professional Real-World Detailer and a peer that demonstrates professional netiquette in the cyber-world.

Meguiar's understands there are different ways to use our products outside the official recommendations and when posted in a way that Kevin does explaining that his techniques are his techniques and he and anyone using them needs to accept responsibility for any negative outcome as a result then it's perfectly acceptable to post these techniques to our forum.

What we won't allow is snippet posting where a member tells how to do something contrary to an official recommendation with little or no meat to their posts and no disclaimer which if we let it go then members or lurkers could interpret that to mean we're okay with it.

As for Meguiar's official recommendations the side of the coin people don't usually see is that even though were a small company we have a variety of different channels that we feed out information and one of our on internal rules is to make sure everyone in the company stays on message. This is an important practice not only for our company but for any company and more than likely the company everyone reading this works for.

We also have to make sure any official recommendations on products and technique are inline with our Training Department and all the documentation they publish.

Besides all that, we have a responsibility to our customers to make sure that our recommendations work for the greatest number of variables involved with a products use and this pertains to a number of segments of our industry.

Staying on message is important and sometimes difficult but it doesn't mean were not flexible enough to know that there are seasoned professionals like Kevin that haver decades of hand-on experience can tweak and improve their own personal techniques to their personal preference and most importantly... still get professional quality results.

On a personal note, when I came to work here at the Corporate office I brought with me both a curse and blessing in that I had some "Mike Phillips" ways of doing things that worked for me but were outside the confines of Meguiar's official teachings. This is where it's great to work for a company that has employees that know how to provide the right coaching and even correction along with education to improve a person by building on a persons strengths while helping them to shed the things that can detour from the goals and mission of the company.

The result is a win/win deal for everyone including a very wide spectrum of Meguiar's customers.