What makes super micro abrasive technology better?

[thejazzguy]

Hello Mike,

What makes super micro abrasive technology "better" than diminishing abrasive technology? Does it allow for more consistency? I'm not doubting that it's better; just trying to understand the advantages.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: What makes super micro abrasive technology better?

Mike is definitely the guy to answer this question.

All I will say is that I have noticed a more predictable, uniform, and consistent performance from M105 (micro abrasives) than any other compound. Also, it is more "dummy proof" since you don't need to learn how long or hard to buff to properly break the product down.

But again, that's just personal experience...Mike has THE answer I'm sure

[Mike Phillips]

Re: What makes super micro abrasive technology better?

Hello Mike,

What makes super micro abrasive technology "better" than diminishing abrasive technology? Does it allow for more consistency? I'm not doubting that it's better; just trying to understand the advantages.

Actually, I don't understand it. On face value it doesn't make sense but everyone that uses these products are blown away. Our chemists could explain it and perhaps Mike Pennington or Jason Rose, who both work very closely with our chemists may explain it and I'll definitely send them the link to this thread but keep in mind both of these two gentlemen are working at SEMA and NACE all through the week.

Just being honest. No one has ever explained it to me fully, I've been given a small picture type explanation of how it works but I don't think I could explain it well enough to do a satisfactory job so we'll have to wait.

One thing for sure, it's technology exclusive to Meguiar's. No one else has it and my gut instincts after now using M105, M86, D151, M205, Ultimate Compound, ScratchX 2.0 and SwirlX is there's something here for everyone's needs and preferences and given a fair chance by the online community it will win you over.

Do keep in mind that neither Mike Pennington, Jason Rose myself or any other employee is going to share proprietary information. A couple years ago. John Dillon, a Manager here at Meguiar's taught me to keep the focus on the performance of the product and not the ingredients. I know many of you are curious and want to know,

What's in the bottle?

But just like a lot of businesses, ingredients in formulas is proprietary information, just don't want anyone to have too high of expectations for this thread over the next week or so.

I remember some guy on another forum who had trouble with M105 when it first came out and started mixing other products into it to try to fix it but this is the backwards approach, a better approach would have been to get more information and try to find out what he was doing wrong instead of becoming a bathtub blender.

[Mike Pennington]

Re: What makes super micro abrasive technology better?

Hello Mike,

What makes super micro abrasive technology "better" than diminishing abrasive technology? Does it allow for more consistency? I'm not doubting that it's better; just trying to understand the advantages.

Keep in mind, do not think of super micro abrasive as necessarily "better" than our diminishing abrasive technology.

We can't get too deep into technology because it is propriety information

But, we can say, in order for us to deliver our next generation of compounds and polishes that meet all the criteria we are looking for, our super micro abrasive technology is the best answer.



Mike

[Black Bart]

Re: What makes super micro abrasive technology better?

Keep in mind, do not think of super micro abrasive as necessarily "better" than our diminishing abrasive technology.

We can't get too deep into technology because it is propriety information

But, we can say, in order for us to deliver our next generation of compounds and polishes that meet all the criteria we are looking for, our super micro abrasive technology is the best answer.



Mike

You seem to be saying that 105 does not have diminishing abrasive technology.

[saturn2]

Re: What makes super micro abrasive technology better?

What's in the bottle you say???? Stuff and this stuff that I don't have yet lol

[Markus Kleis]

Re: What makes super micro abrasive technology better?

You seem to be saying that 105 does not have diminishing abrasive technology.

M105 does NOT have a diminishing abrasive- it uses the new super-MICRO abrasives.

M80, for example uses a diminishing abrasive.

[akimel]

Re: What makes super micro abrasive technology better?

But perhaps it would be possible to explain how the differences between the two technologies will effect exterior polishing. One question immediately comes to mind

Let's say that I have some swirls and scratches on my hood that I am confident can be removed by one full pass of #80. I'm working on the typical area (12'x12'?). As usually, it takes a couple of minutes for me to break down the polish. But what if instead of using #80 I use SwirlX? If I understand rightly what I have read, I do not need to work the product until it fully breaks down, right? I only work the product until the defects have been corrected, and the time expended may well be less the time expended using #80. Does this all sound right?


Al

[g88]

Re: What makes super micro abrasive technology better?

I am not a tech nor chemist guy but from the word and my own experience, my guess is...

super micro abrasive - Doesn't require long working time and chemical break down alot faster/faster cutting (compare to diminishing abrasive). Low dust and MOST important the product cutting/finishing is based on what pad being use.

diminishing abrasive - Require longer working time to breakdown the chemical yet its design for specific application (e.g to be use with wool, cutting/polishing/finishing pad)

Pls correct me if i am wrong

Add-on (Something i found from detailingwiki)
- Diminishing abrasives require friction, not heat (that is just a by-product of friction) to activate and progressively reduce there size until they become a finite milled dust; they are buffered or cushioned in a lubricating water-based oil film emulsion, usually in a semi-liquid paste. -

[RDVT4ME]

Re: What makes super micro abrasive technology better?

But, we can say, in order for us to deliver our next generation of compounds and polishes that meet all the criteria we are looking for, our super micro abrasive technology is the best answer.

Mike

A big AMEN to that! The new products are outstanding and you guys are all to be congratulated for raising the bar.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: What makes super micro abrasive technology better?

If I understand rightly what I have read, I do not need to work the product until it fully breaks down, right? I only work the product until the defects have been corrected, and the time expended may well be less the time expended using #80. Does this all sound right?

Al

Correct.

I am not a tech nor chemist guy but from the word and my own experience, my guess is...

super micro abrasive - Doesn't require long working time and chemical break down alot faster/faster cutting (compare to diminishing abrasive). Low dust and MOST important the product cutting/finishing is based on what pad being use.

How long it takes depends upon a lot of factors like pad and product choice, depth of defect, hardness or softness of paint. Major difference is you can stop anytime in the buffing cycle. You can and should stop when the defects are removed. With a diminishing abrasive you need to buff long enough to insure all the abrasives have broken down or you could leave swirls behind.

diminishing abrasive - Require longer working time to breakdown the chemical yet its design for specific application (e.g to be use with wool, cutting/polishing/finishing pad)

Pls correct me if i am wrong

Add-on (Something i found from detailingwiki)
- Diminishing abrasives require friction, not heat (that is just a by-product of friction) to activate and progressively reduce there size until they become a finite milled dust; they are buffered or cushioned in a lubricating water-based oil film emulsion, usually in a semi-liquid paste. -[/quote]

This sounds like a paraphrase of what we've been posting for years. Ever since detailing forums popped up on the Internet you could find people stating on other forums, (not this one), that heat was necessary to make a product work by aiding in the breakdown of the product, what I would always type is that pressure over time was required to effectively break down the abrasives in a diminishing abrasive product and heat was an unnecessary an unwanted by-product of the process.

Here's the above explanation posted Sep 3rd, 2005, 03:33 PM

Why do we need HEAT!!

Explained here also...
Rotary's Dangerous

A big misunderstanding that seems to be common on 'other' detailing discussion forums is the misconception by other people that heat is required when using a rotary buffer. Hopefully over time the word will travel from here to there and this misconception will be removed from the advice given out on all these other forums by well-meaning people that are likely just parroting what they read on another forum and then repeating it in the forum world they hang out in and thus the cycle feeds on itself.

It's good to see the correct and right information has and is spreading to other forums.

[RogueGypsy]

Re: What makes super micro abrasive technology better?

So, if I'm reading this right:

Diminishing abrasives are first removing defects, then polishing the surface after they have broken down.

Super micro abrasives are removing defects as they polish.

Sounds much easier to achieve the desired finish and easier to control. Maybe even reduce the potential for hazing seen from not working the product long enough.

??????????????


Brock


..

[jmakado]

Re: What makes super micro abrasive technology better?

You might be over thinking it a little. Removing defects IS polishing. The new abrasives are just a different approach at doing just that.

[Erik Mejia]

Re: What makes super micro abrasive technology better?

Hello Mike,

What makes super micro abrasive technology "better" than diminishing abrasive technology? Does it allow for more consistency? I'm not doubting that it's better; just trying to understand the advantages.

I'm no expert, but I think it's the SUPER part.