Removing Orange Peel Effect

[Open Air]

Hey guys,

I just wanted your opinion on removing the orange peel effect on current cars that have a clear coat. It seems like all new cars these days come out of the factory with paint that is not at all flat. (Refer to Mike's Icon photo - orange peel very evident) I love going to our local auto museum in Saratoga and the area hot rod shows where the paint is flat and flawless.

My question is this...is it possible to acheive flat paint from wet sanding a late model car with clear coat?

I assumed that because the orange peel effect is from the underlying paint beneath the clear coat that truely flat paint on a late model car is not possible without a respray and sanding along the way. But my bubble was shattered two years ago when I saw a Electron Blue C-5 Coupe that was wet sanded after the build date and it looked great, not perfect, but way better than any other late model vette at the show.

Your thoughts.

[Rockpick]

Re: Removing Orange Peel Effect

Originally posted by Open Air
...Refer to Mike's Icon photo - orange peel very evident...

In Mike's defense, that's not his paint... it's the surface of his old polisher.


RP

[Open Air]

Re: Re: Removing Orange Peel Effect

Originally posted by Rockpick
In Mike's defense, that's not his paint... it's the surface of his old polisher.


RP

Fair enough, but it's still orange peel. Sorry Rockpick & Mike, I don't mean to be mean if you get my meaning, I just thought that it was a good example of orange peel.

So anyway...will wet sanding the clear coat make the paint appear flat or can this only be achieved to the paint before being clearcoated?

[rjstaaf]

Re: Re: Re: Removing Orange Peel Effect

Originally posted by Open Air
Fair enough, but it's still orange peel.

Actually it is not. It is bare unpainted metal. No paint whatsover. I believe to be specific that part of the Makita is raw cast aluminum. The reason it shines is because Mike has polished it with his bare hands over years of use.

To your question. Is your car a show car or a daily driver? If it is a daily driver I would hesitate to remove that much of the clearcote to get rid of orange peel. Factory paint is thin enough.

[Open Air]

Wow! Proven wrong once again. Guess that's how you learn things. Obviously you guys know Mike pretty well.

I've seen orange peel look even worse.

Hey Bob. Beautiful Stang! My first car was a red '65 Fastback, 289 4-Barrell. Too much rust to keep through college though. Man are those cars sweet! Looks like you take a lot of pride in your baby.

Thanks guys for you comments. The C-5 is in the garage all winter, comes to the golf course with me twice a week only when its not raining, car shows on weekends and various other fun drives in the Adirondacks.

It's probably not the thing for me to takle, but someday I'd like to do more than get the clear coat lookin' as wet as possible. I just wasn't sure if one could flatten the paint by wet sanding the clear coat.

Need to invest in digital camera...then will post pics of my ride.

Thanks again for all your input and insight into Dave's Icon Photo.

[2000]

I too have bad factory orange peel. 2hot ford are you sayinging you can sand it down falt and reshoot clear to fix.....or is it better to just start from the beginning? I would love to repaint my truck but cost is an issue. I was under the impresstion that I would have to live with it unless I completly repainted.

[Mike Phillips]

Just to chime in here,

Two things,

1) Factory paint is thin
2) Factory paint is hard


You couldn't pay me to wet sand, cut, and buff a factory finish. Maybe an isolated scratch, but not the entire car. Chances are incredibly high you will end up going through the clear somewhere, maybe only an edge or high point. If it's your own car, and you make the mistake, then you can either live with it or pay to have it fixed. For me however, I don't want the risk or the responsibility.


In the past year, I have buffed out a number of new Corvettes and what I have noticed is the factory paint is incredibly hard. This makes it very difficult to remove defects. It's one thing to remove a small scratch. It's another thing to remove sanding marks over the entire car.

I wouldn't do it.

If you want a flawless, completely flat finish, then you should look at having the car repainted. If you go down this road, make sure to talk with your painter and discuss how much paint he is going to apply and what is wet sanding, cutting and buffing procedure will be.

The Meguiar's system, including Unigrit Finishing Papers don't instill the typical deeper sanding marks and thus buff out faster and leave more paint on your car.

Generally speaking, the factory finish will be the best, longest lasting finish you can have because of all the tight controls over application. That’s not to say a good custom paint job won’t last a long time, it will, but… you’ll have to pay for it. Good painters are not inexpensive.

Mike

[2000]

thanks all for the help! I've learned to live with the orange peel just fine as long as I don't have swirls. I swear I'll never own another black vehicle...........I said that before the last three black vehicles I bought. ethier I love the challange, or I love heart ache and pain.

[2000]

as long as we're on the subject....is extra coats of paint perfered or extra coats of clear? Is there a benifit to adding extra paint under clear when its the clear we are usually working on?

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by 2000
as long as we're on the subject....is extra coats of paint preferred or extra coats of clear? Is there a benefit to adding extra paint under clear when its the clear we are usually working on?

Hi 2000,

There are two schools of thought on your paint question

1) More paint is better
2) Less paint is better

Personally, I'm in the more paint is better camp. And extra coat or two gives you a little extra film build to remove defects and still have plenty of film build left for future defects. If your car is a garage queen this may not be important, if it's a daily driver and you like to polish it often, then it becomes important.

There is a limit to how much paint you can put on the car before having too much paint actually becomes a problem. What that limit is I don't know. It will depend on how much is going to be sanded and buffed off in the wet sanding process. If your painter applies 6 coats of paint, but then removes 3 coats with this sanding and buffing process, then your back to the normal three coats. If you wanted 4 coats, you're one shy.

Is four coats of clear too much? I don't know. Is three coats of clear to little? I don't know. What I do know is that when I buff out peoples cars, my biggest concern is film build.

As to your other question, once enough base coat has been applied to cover the primer and provide a uniform look/color, then more applications of base coat won't benefit the overall finish, (that I know of). A paint rep could probably answer this question better.

Mike