Claying After a Fresh Waxing

[BJClarke001]

Well, let me start out to say I have had great luck at claying and removing overspray on my vehicle. This has been true up until this past weekend but there may be a good reason why and that is why I am asking.

For those who know me, I had a brand new vehicle re-painted because of an accident. The biggest issue I had was the fact that the body shop got overspray all over everything. Normally, when I found the spots, I hit it with clay and it was gone.

This past weekend, I waxed this vehicle with my DA and the results were better then I expected. Also, I was using my new Halogen lighting in my garage while I worked. After I was done and while admiring my work, I found MORE overspray on the back fender. So, I pulled out my clay and went at it. The clay didn't put a dent in it after many many attempts (and it was brand new clay). I concluded the reason was, the wax was not alloiwing the clay to bite into the overspray and just slid over it. I did get it off using the DA and #80.

So, is it true the clay is less aggressive when being applied with a well waxed surface? Logic tells me yes and I think it is important for others to know that it can be effected. Or, is it that the overspray needed a more aggressive clay to remove?

So I wonder if there are certain situations where we may need to use paint cleaner first (remove wax) before claying.

[Murr1525]

Hmm... interesting. Certainly sounds possible that it could glide over small particles..

[gtp]

i dont think clay removes wax very good.. i think it helps but is not enough to completely strip it.. to get that overspray off make sure you are down to bare paint... maybe even try some Dawn on the effected area followed with aggreesive clay and paint cleaner

[Accumulator]

BJClarke001- I've experimented with using different LSPs over contamination and then trying to remove said contamination with clay. It takes far more aggressive claying than I feel comfortable with to cut through the LSP and eventually remove the contamination. Just like what you experienced. It's sorta the flip side of my gentle spot-claying, which doesn't really remove an appreciable amount of LSP.

IMO it's all a matter of how aggressively one clays (both technique and choice of clay).

[BJClarke001]

Originally posted by Accumulator
BJClarke001- I've experimented with using different LSPs over contamination and then trying to remove said contamination with clay. It takes far more aggressive claying than I feel comfortable with to cut through the LSP and eventually remove the contamination. Just like what you experienced. It's sorta the flip side of my gentle spot-claying, which doesn't really remove an appreciable amount of LSP.

IMO it's all a matter of how aggressively one clays (both technique and choice of clay).

Cool. I just wanted to bring it up on here for others (newbie's to clay) and other users (users of clay) thoughts and draw my own conclusions from that. I kinda figured clay effectiveness would be impacted by wax but wanted to make sure others somewhat have seen the same thing.

Truth is I guess, if you use quick clay and it seems to not do anything. Instead of reaching for a more aggressive clay, maybe you will want to remove the wax first in that area with a paint cleaner. Then try it again. As I stated in my original thread, I used my DA and #80 to remove it. Later, I figured out it was because of the fresh wax. I wish I figured this out befefore that and would of tried it.

[Mike Phillips]

It might be true that fresh wax on the finish with bonded contaminants on top of that might make the clay less effective, but I've never noticed it.

Clay works like lubricated sandpaper and anything sitting on top of the surface is going to get abraded off. Then after the clay has removed anything sitting above the surface, it's going to be in full contact with whatever wax coating is on the surface.

If you look at it from an extreme point of view,

* Is claying adding more wax?
* Is claying removing present wax?

You know the first option is ridiculous and the potential for the second option exists and is likely as even washing a car with a soft wash mitt, lubricated with water and soap will micro-abrade any wax off the surface.

How much more then will an abrasive clay being pushed over the paint remove any wax that is present?

[Accumulator]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
[B]It might be true that fresh wax on the finish with bonded contaminants on top of that might make the clay less effective, but I've never noticed it.

Clay works like lubricated sandpaper and anything sitting on top of the surface is going to get abraded off. Then after the clay has removed anything sitting above the surface, it's going to be in full contact with whatever wax coating is on the surface. [b]

Mike- I've done my experimenting with various LSPs including #16 and even #5 (!) and with different clays. But I must say I've never done it with *Meguiar's* clay, only with that of other makers. This might explain everything, as I'm not talking about something subtle; it takes a determined effort, and often a switch to more aggressive clay, for me to cut through a healthy LSP to get to any contamination that's under it. Cutting through some LSPs with the clay I use is a real chore (just did it this weekend, I'd sealed over a little black spec of something ). I am fully confident that I can demonstrate this when you and I finally get together sometime/somewhere, so until then we can just say "experiences vary"

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Accumulator
I am fully confident that I can demonstrate this when you and I finally get together sometime/somewhere, so until then we can just say "experiences vary"

I'm down with that. I learned a long time ago when calling on detailers to have an open mind, so many of the detailers I met had closed minds it made it difficult to show them something new...

[BJClarke001]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
I'm down with that. I learned a long time ago when calling on detailers to have an open mind, so many of the detailers I met had closed minds it made it difficult to show them something new...

Well, I am sure you don't need me to remind you to make sure you post the results from your findings. Because I too am very curious about this one. I am kinda hoping to find more overspray (that sounds weird to wish for) to research it further. The overspray I found over the past weekend was very hard to see and I didn't know it was there until I used the Halogen (2-500 Watt) lights in the garage. In fact, I had a hard time feeling it too and amazed it was there at all. Of course being a detailing nerd and all, I showed my Wife and she was like, big woop. If she only knew the "Pain" we endure in this detailing process. LOL.

[Mike Phillips]

You could always induce overspray for your testing...

[Ranger72]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
You could always induce overspray for your testing...

Someone get the rustoleum...

[inthedetails]

Sorta on the same but slightly different subject.

I just wore out my first piece of clay on my 1997 chvy 3/4 ton pickup. Overall I am very satisfied with the results except.....

when the knucklehead were painting my house, they must have thought that white paint looked good on green. There are maybe 20 small spots/drops on the roof and one side. Aggressive claying didn't touch 'em. Niether did #83 on the PC. I even tried Scratch X........maybe I'll just add some white to the truck.

[rusty bumper]

Originally posted by BJClarke001
Truth is I guess, if you use quick clay and it seems to not do anything. Instead of reaching for a more aggressive clay, maybe you will want to remove the wax first in that area with a paint cleaner. Then try it again.

Maybe Meguiar's Bug & Tar remover would do better to remove all traces of wax & polish than a paint cleaner would, since a product like #80 is going to glaze over the area anyway......Or maybe APC diluted @ 64/1.

Just thinking.

[Accumulator]

MIke- I fully agree about keeping an open mind. Heh heh, I still remember calling you about that old Jag's paint a couple of years ago and I've used #7 on ss lacquer since forever. Always something left to learn.

BJClarke001- No need to hope for more overspray Here's a way to experiment for yourself. Hope I don't sound like I'm beating a dead horse here; I find this stuff interesting and I believe people should experience things for themselves before they decide to accept/dismiss what people tell them, especially on the 'net. All sorts of things that others swear by just don't work for me but at least I tried them myself.

Find a little spot of contamination that you'd normally clay off. The best thing would be to find *two* spots so you have one for a control. Maybe two little spots of tar or something like that, something that would be pretty easy to handle with clay.

Apply your normal LSP over one of the spots. Be careful that the inherent friction and solvent action doesn't remove the spot. It can be surprising what a "non cleaner" product can clean off! Let the LSP cure for however long you feel it needs to attain full durability.

Then take your mildest clay and some lube and remove the *not covered* contamination as gently as you can. So gently that it takes a few strokes, not just one or two aggressive ones. Note what it takes to remove the spot.

Now do the exact same thing to the spot you covered with LSP. Note the difference, if any. If you *do* note a difference, well, there you go. If you do *not* note a difference then you can say it didn't prove true for you and I'll understand if you think I'm all wet on this.

[BJClarke001]

Originally posted by Accumulator
...................If you do *not* note a difference then you can say it didn't prove true for you and I'll understand if you think I'm all wet on this.

Accmulator,

I do believe you!!! Remember, I am the one that started this thread thinking/knowing wax seems to effect claying removing overspray, LOL.

I wanted to find another (overspray) spot because I would have waxed half of the area again and conduct a test. I would try the clay and see what bites and what doesn't. I know it is an un-scientific approach, but it is the best I can develop with limited time. Besides, if anything else, it is fun.

I know you have done it before and therefore you have seen it with your own eyes (and I believe your results), but I wonder about finding two pieces of contaminets in the paint that are equally bonded (and there is no way of truley knowing). As you stated in your response, ya gotta be careful not to knock it loose while applying your wax. I would just hate to see ya proved wrong because the contaminant fell off on the waxed area while claying because it was a lousy speck to pick to begin with.

It would seem to me that overspray would be a better test bed. Heck, I may put overspray paint on my metal tool box, let it dry for a week or two. Wax half the area and give it a whirl to see.

Most of all, thanks for your thoughts and sharing your findings. At least I was not alone on this one unless we are both crazy.