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Thread: The good and the bad types of silicone.

          
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    The good and the bad types of silicone.

    The good and the bad types of silicone


    I have been told by a customer service guy at Meguiar's that there are two types of silicon, one that is harmful to leather and one that is not. He also told me, Meguiar's puts the harmless kind in their leather treatment products.

    Does anyone have the "recipe" for each of the two kinds, along with the technical name for each kind?

    Jim
    1999 Jaguar XJ8--with Connolly leather!

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    Star Kicker TOGWT's Avatar
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    Silicone:
    [: or polysiloxanes, are inorganic polymers consisting of a silicon-oxygen backbone (...-Si-O-Si-O-Si-O-...) with side groups attached to the silicon atoms]

    •Good: Polydimethylsiloxane (PDS) is a basically inert, water based, amino functional polymer resin that doesn't migrate (dry out) the plasticizers from materials, has less UV radiation absorption and dust attraction properties. Chemists use water-in-oil emulsions, to reduce emulsion particle size, to stabilize emulsions, and to improve spreading and coverage of wax products. Most modern silicone formulas are water soluble (no petroleum), and are completely inert.The best way to describe most forms of silicone is to think of it as a man-made wax ester. Silicone is created by the reaction generated when you combine fatty acids with Polydimethylsiloxane

    •The Bad: Dimethyl is derived from Aromatic hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates, and is usually formulated with a solvent, hexane and petroleum oils, which are environmentally unsound and give a slick, oily finish, which attracts dust and dirt and amplifies sunlight causing vinyl and most plastics to dry out and crack, this type of silicone also causes ‘sling’, which means the product will land on body panels causing a black stain. It also causes rubber compounds along with sun iteration to remove the micro-wax in tyres as well as its carbon black (it's what makes tyre’s the colour they are)

    •And The Ugly: Silicone is an active ingredient in sun UV amplification. As a low quality silicone dressing evaporates away, the silicone oil is left behind, the sun then amplifies these residues, and the drying process is accelerated. This causes rubber, EDPM, vinyl and plastics to dry out, which turns them grey or brown, losing their flexibility and prematurely fail. Water-based dressings do not contain oils or petroleum distillates and provide a non- greasy, natural looking satin finish.

    •For a Few Dollars More: Hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates can be further purified, re-distilled, reacted and combined with various other chemicals to produce a wide range of environmentally safe (water-based) and useful silicone products.
    ~ Providing unbiased advice that Professional and Enthusiast Detailer’s Trust ~ Blog – http://togwt1980.blogspot.com

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    Registered Member Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    In this thread posted in our Interior Care Forum, The good and the bad types of silicone, one of our forum members posted a reply including information on silicones that our R&D department concluded was filled with misinformation and inaccuracies.

    Below we have included some information that counters what the forum member posted to demonstrate that you can't always believe what you read on the Internet. Often times people on the Internet merely copy and paste information found on other websites by doing a simple google search. Often times this information is out of context as well as inaccurate and unreliable.


    Meguiar's Statement on silicones as it relates to the post on our forum in the above included link.
    Silicones, or polysiloxanes, are inorganic synthetic polymers consisting of a silicon-oxygen backbone that can be composed into a wide variety of materials. They can vary in consistency from liquid to gel to rubber to hard plastic. The most common type is linear polydimethylsiloxane (PDMS).

    PDMS are odorless, colorless, water resistant, chemical resistant, oxidation resistant, stable at high temperature, and do not conduct electricity. PDMS are considered inert and impervious to the effects of aging, weather, sunlight, moisture, heat, cold, and some chemical assaults.

    Thus, PDMS are ideal for and found in many products, such as lubricants, insulation, adhesives, sealants, gaskets, car parts, medical devices, children toys, dishware, gloss enhancer and even Silly Putty

    There are many misunderstandings and misstatements about silicones and their use in automotive appearance products. To help and clarify and provide a basis of scientific fact here are just a few examples:

    Notes:
    The text in Red was posted by a forum member.
    The text in Back is from a professional chemist.


    - “Dimethyl is derived from Aromatic hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates”
    Not true… They are not from “Aromatic” hydrocarbons.


    - “Polydimethylsiloxane (PDMS) is a basically inert, water based”
    Not true.... PDMS is oil soluble.


    - “The best way to describe most forms of silicone is to think of it as a man-made wax ester."
    Not true... It is not a wax, not an ester, it is a unique chemistry based upon inorganic materials.


    - “Silicone is created by the reaction generated when you combine fatty acids with Polydimethylsiloxane”
    Not true…PDMS is non-reactive.


    - “Dimethyl causes vinyl and most plastics to dry out and crack”
    Not true… PDMS are odorless, colorless, water resistant, chemical resistant, oxidation resistant, stable at high temperature, and do not conduct electricity. PDMS are considered inert and impervious to the effects of aging, weather, sunlight, moisture, heat, cold, and some chemical assaults.


    - “This type of silicone also causes ‘sling’,"
    Not true… Anything placed on tires will have a tendency to sling due to centrifugal force.


    - “Hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates can be further purified, re-distilled, reacted and combined with various other chemicals to produce a wide range of environmentally safe (water-based) and useful silicone products.”
    Not true… Silicones are not hydrocarbon distillates


    - “Silicone is an active ingredient in sun UV amplification."
    Not true… Silicone does not change the effects of sunlight and its properties.


    - “As a low quality silicone dressing evaporates away, the silicone oil is left behind, the sun then amplifies these residues, and the drying process is accelerated.”
    Not true… PDMS that are used in tire products do not evaporate, nor do they change the effects of sunlight and it’s properties.

    End of Meguiar's Statement



    Note the goal here is not to embarrass or disparage anyone on our forum from posting information and specifically information on complex topics such as the chemistry of silicones, but to point out that it's easy to copy and paste information found on other websites or out of a book from the library, but as scientific sounding as the information may read, if the person posting the information is not a professional chemist, trained in the profession of chemistry, then anything they post should be questioned, and if questioned, the person posting it should be able to back it up with scientific facts or discontinue posting information they can't back up and don't generate themselves from their own learned knowledge on the subject.


    It's important to remember that the goal of Meguiar's Online is to help people get the best results from their time, money and efforts. As such, the primary focus of our our discussions should be on the performance of the products, not the ingredients in our products and the chemistry behind them.

    Meguiar's, just like every other company in the business of manufacturing car care chemicals is not going to tell everyone what's in our products and how they are made. Its ridiculous to even think that any car wax manufacture would do this.

    It's okay to be interested as well as curious as to what's in a product and how it works, I can assure you I'm interested and curious in these things also. But at the end of the day, the big picture is the big picture, and that's choosing and using the right products for the job and the results you achieve.

    That's what this forum is here for, that's our goal, helping you to choose and use the correct product in the right way and achieve the results you're looking for.
    Mike Phillips
    Office: 800-869-3011 x206
    Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net
    "Find something you like and use it often"

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    Registered Member Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    ***bump***
    Mike Phillips
    Office: 800-869-3011 x206
    Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net
    "Find something you like and use it often"

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    Carbon-Black-Detailing CarbonBlack's Avatar
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    Re: The good and the bad types of silicone.

    bump

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    Re: The good and the bad types of silicone.

    Great info.


    [Edited for inappropriate comment; Thanks, Tim]

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    Why do I smell bananas Don's Avatar
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    Re: The good and the bad types of silicone.

    I have to at least give the guy credit for beng a Clint Eastwood fan.
    Don

    "Racy Red"
    2006 Suzuki Aerio -
    The funny-little car that's A LOT faster than it looks.

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    Re: The good and the bad types of silicone.

    Only negative thing I've ever heard about silicone products was from a bodyman that complained that cars had to be carefully cleaned and prepped if there was any silicone products on the paint. And that was a few years back, but I assume still applies, so if you're getting your car painted - let the shop know.

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    Registered Member Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: The good and the bad types of silicone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Junebug View Post
    but I assume still applies, so if you're getting your car painted - let the shop know.
    That's a good idea if you know you're car has had ANY substance introduced to the surface that could cause surface adhesion problems.

    Think about this, any substance that could make water bead up could cause paint to bead up if it's not removed.

    You could have a car that you've never used anything on, nor the dealership where you bought it, but you're neighbor could be spraying some PAM on his barbecue grill and it could drift in the wind and land on your car's paint and cooking oil could cause a problem with surface adhesion if the panels of the car are not properly prepared.

    So silicone gets a lot of attention but actually ANY substance that causes surface tension and can create surface adhesion problems will cause refinishing problems if the body shop doesn't properly prepare the car for painting.

    Make sense?

    Mike Phillips
    Office: 800-869-3011 x206
    Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net
    "Find something you like and use it often"

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    Re: The good and the bad types of silicone.

    I appreciate the clarification about the uses and properties about silicone. It seems that silicone gets a bad rep from many other forums. However, it seems to be an essential ingredient to many products.

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