Can a DA polisher do anything a Rotary can't?

[DanielM]

So I jumped on the DA bandwagon since everyone seemed to insinuate a DA is idiot proof and can do everything a rotary can. I started using the least aggressive compound and pad all the way to the most aggressive pad and compound. After numerous passes, the paint was super smooth and shiny but I feel like little if any swirls were removed.

My neighbor allowed me to borrow his Rotary. I slapped my pad on, being scared, did very fast passes at only 900 and moved to 1200 RPM. Although not perfect, I removed a significant amount of swirl marks. Since the Rotary seemed so much smoother ( didn't vibrate my hands too much) I decided to slap a finishing pad on and UP.

I do not have detailers eyes but it seemed to finish very well and was much faster than using a DA. I removed more doing like 5-second passes instead of 45-60 second passes on the DA. The finishing was also much faster. Is there any reason to use a DA? Even on a different car wouldn't fast passes and only 900 RPM be pretty paint safe? Even when doing minor minor full car paint correction, wouldn't UP or an AIO on a finishing pad be as safe as a DA?

Honestly, I was getting very frustrated and thought people were lying about their correction or Meguiars products were overhyped but now I might be able to use all the lesser aggressive products. So any incite?

SIDE QUESTION:

With a rotary do you go just side to side or up/down side to side like a DA? Meguiars videos did up/down/side/side but they used a FLEX with is quasi DA/Rotary.

[DanielM]

Re: Can a DA polisher do anything a Rotary can't?

Anyone or is it just a matter of preference?

[drumdan]

Re: Can a DA polisher do anything a Rotary can't?

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A random orbital tool can often finish out swirl free, where rotary tools can tend to install holograms - depending on the experience and technique of the operator.

There are some cases where using a d/a, I was more nervous than ever using a rotary. The Rupes MK2 21, with a 5" plate, a Meguiar's Xtra Cut disc, and M100 was the fastest cut I've ever achieved outside of wet sanding. I was actually nervous with that set up.

Using a rotary since 1998, not having any issues with strike through, or burning clear coat, I was surprised when I got my PC, and really started using it in 2012, or 13 that I did strike through paint a couple times. I really underestimated how aggressive even a green foam pad and Ultimate Compound could be - in certain situations. There were other vehicles that the same combination bounced off of with seemingly no effect....

Heavy oxidation is where I most like to use a rotary. That thick layer of dead paint isn't much of a match for a Megs wool pad and M100.

[Nick Winn]

Re: Can a DA polisher do anything a Rotary can't?

The following below article is a good read if you have yet to see it:

Beginners Guide to the Different Types of Paint Polishing Tools

[DanielM]

Re: Can a DA polisher do anything a Rotary can't?

Drumdan,

A random orbital tool can often finish out swirl free, where rotary tools can tend to install holograms - depending on the experience and technique of the operator.

Hmm never got an email response, so sorry for the delay.

But can you realistically install holograms if using only speed 1, almost no pressure, ultimate polish on a finishing pad? Is it more probable than DA Haze/tick marks?

I was surprised when I got my PC, and really started using it in 2012, or 13 that I did strike through paint a couple times. I really underestimated how aggressive even a green foam pad and Ultimate Compound could be - in certain situations

I just find that so hard to believe from my experience. Ford paint is not known to be hard and I could not remove anything with my D/A. I used Chemical Guys Hex Logic most aggressive pad, Ultimate Compound, doing very small sections with super slow overlapping passes for about 2 minutes in a small area on THREE SEPARATE OCCASIONS and it felt like I removed only 10%. My very first time with a quick Rotary sweep and about 80% gone.

[DanielM]

Re: Can a DA polisher do anything a Rotary can't?

The following below article is a good read if you have yet to see it:

Beginners Guide to the Different Types of Paint Polishing Tools

I have read everything about D/A and Rotaries and that is why I am so confused. From my experience, it seems like the Rotaries are made out to be way scarier than they are and D/A's are way overhyped and there defect removal.

My Rotary finished great but since my D/A removed no swirls, I wonder if using my D/A after the rotary would make it look even better?


Also can you answer my side question:

With a rotary do you go just side to side or up/down side to side like a DA? Meguiars videos did up/down/side/side but they used a FLEX which is quasi DA/Rotary.

[Selectchoice]

Re: Can a DA polisher do anything a Rotary can't?

I have read everything about D/A and Rotaries and that is why I am so confused. From my experience, it seems like the Rotaries are made out to be way scarier than they are and D/A's are way overhyped and there defect removal.

My Rotary finished great but since my D/A removed no swirls, I wonder if using my D/A after the rotary would make it look even better?


Also can you answer my side question:

With a rotary do you go just side to side or up/down side to side like a DA? Meguiars videos did up/down/side/side but they used a FLEX which is quasi DA/Rotary.

What brand of DA polisher do you have?

If you're not removing defects with a DA it's usually down to technique. How much downward pressure are you using? At what speed are you operating the machine?

DA's can be serious defect removing machines. And yes, a DA can completely remove paint, particularly on edges, high spots or on thin paint. However a rotary polisher also will remove the paint in these same situations.

[drumdan]

Re: Can a DA polisher do anything a Rotary can't?

Drumdan,



Hmm never got an email response, so sorry for the delay.

But can you realistically install holograms if using only speed 1, almost no pressure, ultimate polish on a finishing pad? Is it more probable than DA Haze/tick marks?



I just find that so hard to believe from my experience. Ford paint is not known to be hard and I could not remove anything with my D/A. I used Chemical Guys Hex Logic most aggressive pad, Ultimate Compound, doing very small sections with super slow overlapping passes for about 2 minutes in a small area on THREE SEPARATE OCCASIONS and it felt like I removed only 10%. My very first time with a quick Rotary sweep and about 80% gone.

Depending on the paint system, you can install holograms with a d/a on speed 1. It's all relative.

As far as the effectiveness of the green hex pad, Ultimate Compound, and PC 7424xp, my profile on Autogeek has a photo album and write up of how I removed 1000 grit scratches with it.

There was another time I did a two vehicles for a friend of mine. As I was finishing one, he began sanding the other with 1500 grit. I killed his old rotary while I buffed the marks out early in the job. The only other tool I had was an old school PC 7424, green pads, and M100 compound. That combination saved the day.

As far as ford paint, I've found some of it to be on the harder side.

As far as the orange and yellow hex logic pads, I find them very ineffective - especially without a ton of pressure. Numerous times I've tested the yellow, orange, and green from that line, and every time go back to the green. It's very strange being that the green is pretty soft. However the green pad is more coarse and porous.

Back in the early/mid 2000's the green used to be a designated medium to light cutting pad, due to It's porosity. Since then the industry has used pad density to determine It's aggressiveness, which personally doesn't work for me. At least for me anyway.

A great pad that features European foam is the Lake Country Hydrotech. They cut and finish great, but don't have the durability of the American foams green, and blue Hex Logic (manufactured by Buff and Shine). The Hydrotech line is one of my absolute favorite foams.

There have also been times where I needed to use microfiber pads to get the job done. This is where Meguiar's Dual Action Microfiber Correction System really pulls through. I also like the Buff and Shine (same as Chemical Guys) mf pads. They work great with M100 compound.

These days I've been using the Rupes system a lot, and find that it works great with any of their pads and polishes. The last time I was working at a shop, (where we used rotary to cut everything) I used the owner's Rupes 21 mk2. He had it set up with a 5" plate, washer mod, and a Meguiar's Xtra Cut microfiber disc. I was actually leery using that combination. Way less forgiving than the rotary.

Another great pad for the d/a is the Thin Purple Foamed Wool by lake country.

Regardless, no foam pad, random orbital combo is going to be as aggressive as a rotary. Apples and oranges. Compare the Meguiar's Microfiber System results to the rotary/wool and see how it turns out.

[drumdan]

Re: Can a DA polisher do anything a Rotary can't?

In his book How To Use The Rupes Bigfoot Polishing System, Mike Phillips outlines the following reasons we see so many orbitals bring used compared to rotary (page 29):

1. Long history of instilling holograms into paint.
2. Long history of burning through edges and high points.
3. Long history of reducing customer satisfaction at new car dealerships. (Swirls are the number one complaint of new car buyers.)
4. Steep learning curve to use correctly and safely, and even then the direct drive rotating action instills a swirl pattern referred to as holograms, unique only to rotary buffers.
5. Historically heavy and loud.
6. Physically demanding on the technician.

[DanielM]

Re: Can a DA polisher do anything a Rotary can't?

What brand of DA polisher do you have?

If you're not removing defects with a DA it's usually down to technique. How much downward pressure are you using? At what speed are you operating the machine?

DA's can be serious defect removing machines. And yes, a DA can completely remove paint, particularly on edges, high spots or on thin paint. However a rotary polisher also will remove the paint in these same situations.

Since I am not a professional I used a Harbor Freight since it is more powerful but not very pleasant. I used enough downward pressure that the pad was still rotating at a decent pace. I operated at speed 6 and did a 2' by 2' area. I was using slow overlapping passes and did each area for about 2-3 minutes.

I read everything I could possibly find and got nowhere, yet jumped on the horse with a bootleg rotary and I was shocked at how good it came out. I dunno.....................

[DanielM]

Re: Can a DA polisher do anything a Rotary can't?

Drum Dan,

As far as the orange and yellow hex logic pads, I find them very ineffective - especially without a ton of pressure. Numerous times I've tested the yellow, orange, and green from that line, and every time go back to the green. It's very strange being that the green is pretty soft. However the green pad is more coarse and porous.

Hmm interesting. I never used (don't know if I have the green). The Green was listed as the 3rd most aggressive, so I started with the Orange (second most aggressive) and to the Yellow (most aggressive).

A great pad that features European foam is the Lake Country Hydrotech.

Yes, those are a fan favorite. However, there was a sale and the HEXNESS made me say OoooOOO but still a reputable brand IMO.

This is where Meguiar's Dual Action Microfiber Correction System really pulls through

Seems like nobody except megs sells them and of course none in stores. I was thinking of going for those but had nothing else to buy to warranshipping.


I don't know guys. Maybe I am a prodigy on the Rotary and a dunce on the DA. I literally did almost no pressure used very low speeds and was zipping because I was scared and removed almost everything. The DA following all the pros to the T, and while smooth, almost no defect removal. I was almost about to give up thinking removing swirls was just a camera trick online.


Also, can you answer my side question:

With a rotary do you go just side to side or up/down side to side like a DA? Meguiars videos did up/down/side/side but they used a FLEX which is quasi DA/Rotary.

[Old Bear]

Re: Can a DA polisher do anything a Rotary can't?

Which backing plate were you using?

Sometimes manufactures match the hook and loop of the materials on the plate to the connection surface of the pad.
Meguiars does this with their newer backing plates and microfiber systems.
If the interface between the microhooks and micro loops is too loose, energy is lost. If they interlock better, more energy is transferred to the working surface of the pad.

The MT300 DA works best by keeping the full surface of the pad on the paint surface while working. This lets the whole pad surface area work. Even a slight lifting of an edge can begin diminishing the effectiveness.

I have had the opportunity to help some first time users of the MT300 at the Thursday Nights at the Garage. I watch and remind them to keep the pad flat and keep the white line on the backing plate visibly rotating. One thing I sometimes do, is use the smallest finger on a hand to show that an edge is slightly elevated to the point I can nearly get the finger under the pad. Although I may agree that it is almost a tiny bit obnoxious, it does a very effective job of communicating to the new user which part of the pad is not being kept on the surface. This can increase as a hand tires. It also is more noticeable when going away from and then back to the operators body. There is a tendency to lift the switch end of the handle as it approaches the body, and to dip it as you approach for example the center of the hood.

Using the MT300 DA with a smaller pad is stepping up the correction ability.
a 3" backing plate and pad is more aggressive than 5 inch is more aggressive than 6 inch.
As I understand it, the MT300 is designed to function efficiently (ergonomically) with the 5 inch plate/pads. I believe this has to do with the counter weight design.

[drumdan]

Re: Can a DA polisher do anything a Rotary can't?

Drum Dan,



Hmm interesting. I never used (don't know if I have the green). The Green was listed as the 3rd most aggressive, so I started with the Orange (second most aggressive) and to the Yellow (most aggressive).



Yes, those are a fan favorite. However, there was a sale and the HEXNESS made me say OoooOOO but still a reputable brand IMO.



Seems like nobody except megs sells them and of course none in stores. I was thinking of going for those but had nothing else to buy to warranshipping.


I don't know guys. Maybe I am a prodigy on the Rotary and a dunce on the DA. I literally did almost no pressure used very low speeds and was zipping because I was scared and removed almost everything. The DA following all the pros to the T, and while smooth, almost no defect removal. I was almost about to give up thinking removing swirls was just a camera trick online.


Also, can you answer my side question:

With a rotary do you go just side to side or up/down side to side like a DA? Meguiars videos did up/down/side/side but they used a FLEX which is quasi DA/Rotary.

With any tool, I do the side to side, up and down - cross hatch motion of pad along the surface. Regardless I have to yield to the shape of the panel.

[fossil1997]

Re: Can a DA polisher do anything a Rotary can't?

DA is for consumers. And amatuer pros. Rotary is the best result. Big problem. Rotary takes long to master. DA, learn same day/buy machine/pads/product .

[fossil1997]

Re: Can a DA polisher do anything a Rotary can't?

Yes. Rotary is superior