Help me restore this (possibly) 70 year old lacquer finish

[Mortimer452]

Lots of pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/FX2VV

This is a 1947 Plymouth "barn find" I picked up about two months ago, it's been sitting for the past 20+ years. Mechanically speaking, finally got it into road-worthy condition over the weekend and gave this car it's first wash in two decades.

The paint is lacquer with no clear coat. Pretty sure at least portions have been repainted at some point years ago, but some of it may be the original paint (note the cracking on the trunk lid)

I have some experience with paint correction but never on old lacquer like this, and nothing this severe. Looking for advice on a good plan of attack to get this finish looking great again. It looked amazing wet but dried a bit chalky, and there's a lot of weird spots/stains/scratches everywhere from sitting in a barn for so long. Clay bar and hand polish seems to be doing a fairly good job of pulling up some of the spots & stains, but others (see pictures) are much more stubborn.

Not looking for absolute perfection, I know the cracked areas will stay that way, but I kinda think it gives the car character. Mostly just hoping to get rid of these stains and bring back some depth to the black color. I have a cheap random orbit single-speed buffer, might finally pull the trigger on something nicer like the Porter Cable 7424 (always wanted one) if it would make a big difference on a project like this.

[Nick Winn]

Re: Help me restore this (possibly) 70 year old lacquer finish

Welcome to MOL! Very cool project.

I have yet to have a chance to try the below technique myself, but our friend Mike Phillips has a technique which would be fitting for your project:

The #7 Rub Down Technique by Mike Phillips

If you choose to try the above technique, a good application of our G17216 Ultimate Compound can be used at a later date after, if needed to address the defects. This can be applied by hand or DA Polisher.
- Nick

[BillyJack]

Re: Help me restore this (possibly) 70 year old lacquer finish

I've done the M07 treatment numerous times and it just flat WORKS. I usually apply aggressively with a soft piece of terrycloth and let the first app sit until the following evening, just shy of 24 hours. Multiple apps work too, improving the finish incrementally, especially if you don't have the equipment to machine polish. Once you get to the point where it doesn't seem like the paint isn't absorbing any more product, then it's time to either wipe it clean and apply wax, or start your polishing.
My favorite polish had always been M80, but unfortunately it has been discontinued. Many other Meguiar's polishes and compounds work well, including M03, M02, Ultimate Polish, M205 and Ultimate Compound, listed in ascending order of aggressiveness. Once you get all done with polishing, wipe on another pass of M07, removing it almost immediately, than do your waxing. Tread lightly on any areas you suspect having thin paint, even to the point of avoiding machine polishing, as it's real easy to buff right through old lacquers.

Bill

[Mortimer452]

Re: Help me restore this (possibly) 70 year old lacquer finish

Thanks a lot for the advice so far. I've heard from many that the M07 is simply the best for restoring old lacquers. I was even recommended this approach by a user on the AdamsPolishes forum

I've heard the M07 is a real pain to wipe off if you let it dry? Any tricks to making this easier?

Which wax would you recommend? I think I have a can of NXT paste, maybe a bottle of Deep Crystal Carnuba.

[BillyJack]

Re: Help me restore this (possibly) 70 year old lacquer finish

Thanks a lot for the advice so far. I've heard from many that the M07 is simply the best for restoring old lacquers. I was even recommended this approach by a user on the AdamsPolishes forum

I've heard the M07 is a real pain to wipe off if you let it dry? Any tricks to making this easier?

Which wax would you recommend? I think I have a can of NXT paste, maybe a bottle of carnuba

Yep, M07 will be a real bear after it sits overnight. Attack it differently than your average wax wipe off. Start in one spot and work outward from there, trying to get most of it off, but not every last bit. Rubbing will tend to re-liquefy M07, then it will need to set up for a few minutes before a second wiping. If you are doing repeated coats, don't worry about getting it perfectly clean, as the next M07 app will clean it. If, after your final app, you still have some residue remaining, remember that "like dissolves like". Dampen an MF cloth very slightly with more M07, wipe the stubborn spots, then remove it immediately with a clean MF.

With regard to the wax, that's user's choice, whatever looks best to your eyes. Personally, I prefer the look of carnauba rather than synthetics on old SS paint, so I lean to Gold Class, M26, or any of the dozens of similar waxes on my shelf. I have done my Camino with NXT however, if I'm going to drive it for a while and park it outside, because NXT tends to sheet water with less beading than M26 or GC, minimizing the potential of baked-in water spots on my fragile old paint.

Bill


BTW, here's a few pics for motivational purposes. First is a split shot of my Camino's roof. Two apps of M07 with soaks for about 20 hours, followed by a light polish, vs the untouched side.


Six judged shows, six trophies, thanks to M07 and the knowledge I've gained from here and a few other detailing forums.

[Nick Winn]

Re: Help me restore this (possibly) 70 year old lacquer finish

Worked some in on my Dad's 1972 Porsche 914 this morning that has been sitting on the side of our house for a while...will report back tomorrow after first coat.

[Jtepn87]

Re: Help me restore this (possibly) 70 year old lacquer finish

Any update Nick? I love seeing old cars come back to life!

[Old Bear]

Re: Help me restore this (possibly) 70 year old lacquer finish

Billy
That roof shot really shows a huge difference on your Conquista. Have you tried M07 on the single stage paint in the engine compartment? I was wondering what you use on your inner fender wells.

[Mortimer452]

Re: Help me restore this (possibly) 70 year old lacquer finish

Update time! Did the M07 treatment a week or so ago, let it sit almost 24 hours, that really got rid of alot of the "chalkiness" to the finish, and brought back some depth. I thought about doing a second treatment, but my arms were tired enough after just one.

Rainy weekend and my outdoor activities were cancelled, so I spent half a day today polishing & waxing.

Used M09 Swirl Remover with a DA polisher with the HF blue pad over most of the car, basically all the upward facing surfaces, which had the worst stains/spots/scratches from sitting in some guy's barn and getting used as a shelf for so long. This did not bring the finish to perfection, but it was a very noticeable improvement. Hit a few spots by hand with Ultimate Compound. I'm not super experienced with paint correction so I dare not go anything more aggressive right now for fear of doing more harm than good, but I may try again sometime later.

Hit the whole car with the M07 again as a final coat before applying Ultimate Paste Wax. First time using the Ultimate Wax, I've read it's great on dark colors, so far I'm super happy with how it looks. The finish is not flawless, but from 10 feet away it sure looks like it is, and I'm totally fine with that.

Left side before, right side after M09 Swirl Remover


Before/after on a few spots next to rear window. Some of these came out complete with the M09, others were more stubborn.
The spots are still there, but you really gotta get in the right light to see them.



Large stain on roof before/after. Again, still there, but you can really only see it from just the right angle.




A few obligatory show-off pics:



Quite a transformation from how I found it:

[BillyJack]

Re: Help me restore this (possibly) 70 year old lacquer finish

Billy
That roof shot really shows a huge difference on your Conquista. Have you tried M07 on the single stage paint in the engine compartment? I was wondering what you use on your inner fender wells.

Sorry for the delay in posting, as it's been a very busy week at work. Underhood area was a whole 'nother story with my Camino. Originally, it had been rustproofed everywhere from the fender flanges down, then, at some point years ago, it was coated with a dressing that was like shellac in appearance and consistency. After many, many hours removing all that **** with denatured alcohol, rustproof remover and plastic putty knives, the paint, plastics and hardware underneath looked near-new. Since then, a yearly workout with M06 Cleaner Wax on the paint, Collinite 850 Metal Wax on the aluminum and Natural Shine Dressing is all it needs to stay nice.

Bill

[BillyJack]

Re: Help me restore this (possibly) 70 year old lacquer finish

Update time! Did the M07 treatment a week or so ago, let it sit almost 24 hours, that really got rid of alot of the "chalkiness" to the finish, and brought back some depth. I thought about doing a second treatment, but my arms were tired enough after just one.

Rainy weekend and my outdoor activities were cancelled, so I spent half a day today polishing & waxing.

Used M09 Swirl Remover with a DA polisher with the HF blue pad over most of the car, basically all the upward facing surfaces, which had the worst stains/spots/scratches from sitting in some guy's barn and getting used as a shelf for so long. This did not bring the finish to perfection, but it was a very noticeable improvement. Hit a few spots by hand with Ultimate Compound. I'm not super experienced with paint correction so I dare not go anything more aggressive right now for fear of doing more harm than good, but I may try again sometime later.

Hit the whole car with the M07 again as a final coat before applying Ultimate Paste Wax. First time using the Ultimate Wax, I've read it's great on dark colors, so far I'm super happy with how it looks. The finish is not flawless, but from 10 feet away it sure looks like it is, and I'm totally fine with that.

Congratulations, Mortimer!

You should be very proud of the results you've achieved!
The heavy work is done, so from this point, it's just all about refinement, if you care to give it more effort.
If you care to go further, get some 5 inch Meguiars polishing discs in both black and yellow and the matching backing plate. You can carefully attack some of the spots with some UC on a yellow pad and see if it makes an improvement without removing much of the precious original paint. You can buff on the thing almost endlessly with either your M09 you already have or some Ultimate Polish. Also, get some Poorboy's World "Black Hole" Glaze from Autogeek or Autoality and apply it at speed #2 or #3 and a black pad before your next wax job. For my garage queen, I like to do a clay treatment, then an M07 soak on an annual basis, then follow with a polish, Black Hole and wax. Of course, this entire paragraph is just about options. You can just wax it, drive it and enjoy it from this point too.

Once again, congrats!

Bill

[BillE]

Re: Help me restore this (possibly) 70 year old lacquer finish

Looking GOOD Mortimer!

Needless to say, "7" wins again.

Bill

[Old Bear]

Re: Help me restore this (possibly) 70 year old lacquer finish

Thanks Billy

Mortimer, That looks good!

[Nick Winn]

Re: Help me restore this (possibly) 70 year old lacquer finish

Any update Nick? I love seeing old cars come back to life!

I haven't had a chance to get over to this car! I will follow up ASAP : )

Update time! Did the M07 treatment a week or so ago, let it sit almost 24 hours, that really got rid of alot of the "chalkiness" to the finish, and brought back some depth.

Awesome work & approach on this car! Happy to see you are satisfied with the results. Feel free to update us or post further questions in this thread if you work on the car again! We would be happy to hear & learn from your experience.