Two Questions: Shelf Life & Is M83 an Appropriate Second Step to M105

[Nompton]

Hi! I used to post here under a different handle almost a decade ago but college, law school, my career, and wife took precedence over my car care regime. Recently, I've been fortunate enough to have some more down time and, in turn, time to dedicate to keeping our cars' paint in better condition. Unfortunately, it means that my car has some significant swirling and oxidation to address from years of neglect and harsh car-washes!

I rediscovered my stash of Meguiar's supplies from a decade or so ago. My first question: What is the shelf-life of M83, M80, and NXT Wax?

Keeping in mind, these were in my garage where temperatures ranged from 10F-120F (or more possibly with brutal Oklahoma and Texas summers). I understand these may be shot or not worth the risk they would pose to use on my cars. However, if I'm able to save a half-bottle, I'd not mind doing so. Of all the products I still have, it seems M16 held up the best and looks exactly like I remember it looking.

My second question: Is M83 an appropriate "next step" after using M105?

I cleaned, clayed, and cleaned up my Soft Buff pads and my DA G100 to try to remove some oxidation and swirls from my paint. For reference, I'm working on a 2011 White BMW. I started with a yellow polishing pad with M83 (again, not the old stuff, fresh) on the DA. Next, I used M6 and finished with a thin coat of M16. While my paint was smoother than it's ever been, there were still significant swirls present. The next day, I stripped the wax and tried M83 with a burgundy cutting pad on the DA and followed up with M6 and M16. Again, somewhat improved but swirls still present. I ordered some M105 and a Microfiber Cutting Pad for my DA. My next step will be trying M105 with the yellow foam Soft Buff. If that doesn't remove the persistent swirls, I'll switch to the Microfiber Cutting Pad. All this to say: In the spirit of not spending more money than I should, can I follow up M105 with M83? I know it's a "Dual Action" cleaner and polish but I want to make sure it would be appropriate for the task.

Thanks in advance for all of your help!

[Lydia]

Re: Two Questions: Shelf Life & Is M83 an Appropriate Second Step to M105

I have M80 and NXT Tech Wax and Tech Wax 2.0, and M83 from 2006 or so. Like you, I got busy with other things. Most of it is still fine, it just needed to be shaken badly. I think my M82 went bad, if I remember correctly, and one bottle of NXT. It was thin, with little chunks. I shook and shook it with no success. If the texture hasn't changed and it smells fine, it should be good to go. That will be the best way to know if it's still good. The main problem I had was every single Soft Buff pad I had disintegrated. I had to throw them all out. The plus side is, the new disks are greatly improved! My products were stored in my garage in FL predominately, but it has conditioned walls on three sides so it didn't have as extreme temperatures as you.

I don't know from having tried about following up with M83 (I never cared much for it personally). But if you have M80, I think that would be a better next step. M83 is probably more aggressive than you would need. Don't forget that 105 is SMAT and M80 is diminishing abrasives, point being that you can work M105 for as long as you're able or as short as you need. Since M80 has diminishing abrasives you have to work it until it breaks down. If you don't have M80, I suggest giving M83 a try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!

The microfiber pads and M105 are excellent. Make sure to prime the microfiber pads before using them.

Good luck!

[Nompton]

Re: Two Questions: Shelf Life & Is M83 an Appropriate Second Step to M105

Much appreciated, Lydia.

I think my old product may be shot. NXT wax may still by OK, I'll try it out on a small spot on my car. Not a huge issue, I don't mind buying more so long as I'm not being redundant in my product selection.

Oddly, my Soft Buff pads look nearly new after some hand washing with Dawn and air drying. Nevertheless, I'm looking forward to trying out the new microfiber pads. I worked on my wife's car today and was able to clean up some crud with M83 + Yellow Foam pad. I still had some swirls leftover so I'll give M105 a shot at cleaning up the rest. I'll probably grab some M80. Like you, if I'm able to clean up my paint with M105/M80, I don't see much need for M83 so long as I keep up with my paint.

[Lydia]

Re: Two Questions: Shelf Life & Is M83 an Appropriate Second Step to M105

That's too bad. It sounds like your temperatures were significantly more extreme than mine so I guess that makes sense. Unfortunately M80 has been discontinued. I'd get M205 as a good replacement. It's easy to work with as well. In fact, even though I still have M80, I usually use M205. It's SMAT as well so you just work it as long as needed. I figure I'll save the M80 for single stage paints.

[Nick Winn]

Re: Two Questions: Shelf Life & Is M83 an Appropriate Second Step to M105

Welcome back! Typical shelf life of most all of our products is 3 - 5 years, & they should not be exposed to prolonged extreme heat or cold. If anything, even if they were in a "spoiled" state, it would never hurt to use a particular product, it just would not perform as well.

M105 used on one of our DA Microfiber Cutting Discs is some serious cutting power. Even our D300 DA Microfiber Correction Compound on our DA Microfiber Cutting Disc is a significant step down from M105/DMC. Just giving you some examples here of where you are gauging in terms of cutting ability. Another example, a significant step down in aggressiveness, would be our Ultimate Compound applied on our DFC5 Soft Buff Foam Cutting Disc. It is tough to just say, "M105 on a DMC5 Microfiber Cutting Disc is all I need", because there are many other situations & conditions of paint where Ultimate Compound on a Foam Cutting Disc will take care of 100% of the defects.

In regards to the new thin DA Foam Discs, not only have we expanded our cutting & finishing ability with these discs, (new DA specific thin foam cutting disc w/ new foam technology & new foam technology in the black foam finishing disc), the Soft Buff DA Foam discs are much more smoother running. More information can be referenced below. Use your Soft Buff 6 or 7 Inch pads until they were out, but definitely do yourself a favor & pick up the new disc when needed:

Meguiar's Soft Buff DA Foam Discs & Backing Plates

Hope this helps.

- Nick

[Nompton]

Re: Two Questions: Shelf Life & Is M83 an Appropriate Second Step to M105

Much appreciated, Nicholas. I've already ordered a couple new soft buff foam DA discs. The only ones will now be mostly relegated to test spots or use with a microfiber bonnet.

As far as my plan of action goes: I planned to try M105 with a soft buff polishing pad before jumping straight to the microfiber pad. I seem to remember the sentiment that you should "only use as much cutting power as you need" to get the job done. Comparatively speaking, where would M83 + yellow foam rank (in cutting ability) to Ultimate Compound + yellow foam?

[Nick Winn]

Re: Two Questions: Shelf Life & Is M83 an Appropriate Second Step to M105

Much appreciated, Nicholas. I've already ordered a couple new soft buff foam DA discs. The only ones will now be mostly relegated to test spots or use with a microfiber bonnet.

As far as my plan of action goes: I planned to try M105 with a soft buff polishing pad before jumping straight to the microfiber pad. I seem to remember the sentiment that you should "only use as much cutting power as you need" to get the job done. Comparatively speaking, where would M83 + yellow foam rank (in cutting ability) to Ultimate Compound + yellow foam?

Yes, this is true, we always recommend using the least aggressive method needed for the task at hand. Even though some of our most aggressive processes on a DA Polisher are still very non-invasive, it is still good to practice using the least aggressive method needed.

I would say Ultimate Compound is a significant step above M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polisher in cut, when applied with a dual action polisher machine.

- Nick