ultra cut compound?

[MicrofiberMan]

i know they say you want to use the least aggressive compound to get the job done but it seems to me like people are using this stuff on paint thats already in good condition but they want to really get that show car finish on. is it true that if you want a really nice finish you need a heavy compound to start with even though the paint might be newer and not in bad shape?

[Nick Winn]

Re: ultra cut compound?

Hi MicrofiberMan,

Compounds are used on an as needed basis to address defects. There is no performance gain from using a compound on a car in good condition with no defects. With that said, a finishing polish like M205 Ultra Finishing Polish or G19216 Ultimate Polish in the consumer line, can certainly work to brighten up & increase gloss, depth, & clarity to a paint finish on a car new car or a car which has not been polished, especially when used with a machine.

[MicrofiberMan]

Re: ultra cut compound?

Hi MicrofiberMan,

Compounds are used on an as needed basis to address defects. There is no performance gain from using a compound on a car in good condition with no defects. With that said, a finishing polish like M205 Ultra Finishing Polish or G19216 Ultimate Polish in the consumer line, can certainly work to brighten up & increase gloss, depth, & clarity to a paint finish on a car new car or a car which has not been polished, especially when used with a machine.

thanks man ive used those and they are great but it seems like the two panels i used ultimate compound on first have a much better finish i use a machine as well

[Top Gear]

Re: ultra cut compound?

I think it's another one of those "it depends" things. Nicholas is of course right, but I've found there are a lot of road rashes and other random things a polish won't really get at without some work, and the compound step also makes the surface baby smooth, a "powered claying" benefit, if nothing else (I'm assuming a polish step will follow, anyway). It's really up to you, and what you want for the car in question. If the finish is already nicely polished but just needs a re-waxing, you can get much of the same swirl-free effect with an "aggressive" pass of a cleaner-wax. If the finish is a bit dried out of polishing oils, then it's time for the full multi-step deal. I'm waiting on cooler weekends so I can do just that

[MicrofiberMan]

Re: ultra cut compound?

i have polished it a few times since i bought it, first i did scratchx on the whole car, a couple months later i used ultimate compound on a couple panels and ultra finishing polish on the whole car, actually i did that two different times, the car looks great other then the fact that its chit paint and there's a lot of chips in it, theres also some scratches i couldn't get out but overall from three feet it looks showroom condition

[MicrofiberMan]

Re: ultra cut compound?

i think the panels i used ultimate compound on look the best, i dont know if the paint is hard or not so i dont know how much clear coat ive taken off, im wondering if there is enough to use 5 on it next time, ill prob just do it once and thats it, i really want that show car perfect finish, its close.


does the fact that the paint chips easy mean the paint is soft? its hard to get scratches and swirls out

[Top Gear]

Re: ultra cut compound?

Paint chipping, like those big ones on the leading edges of hoods from driving on interstates, usually means the paint is hard, but I'm sure there are exceptions, and all that. These days, I really doubt car makers are using soft paints and clears, because their application is so super-thin via paint robots, and if too soft it would make them look really bad when you almost wash the paint off and come back to complain after a few months. Recent paints sure seem super resilient, don't they?, despite being thinner than ever, so that kinda tells me they are all fairly hard - or at least, super resilient. Sometimes, people say paint is "soft" when they really mean it "responds to my pad/liquid/technique/command/etc", which isn't really the same thing at all, because much of that "response" is just us fooling ourselves with polishing oils and waxes rather than getting any actual abrasion or cut (just because it looks great, doesn't mean it was actually corrected). Personally, I think it's safe to assume all recent factory and body shop paints/clears are at least sufficiently hard to allow those of us using DA machines to stop worrying about how much clear some people think we're removing - but maybe I'm oversimplifying Quality body shop paint today can be at least twice as thick as factory, if not thicker, and just as hard or harder (or resilient), because they really don't want you coming back to complain.

You just have to experiment for yourself. I've used max speed and max pressure for (no-joke) dozens of long passes with UC on MF on hard paint and gotten nowhere, although the panel looked absolutely fantastic in most lights and you'd assume it was 100% perfect, but that's because it was covered in fresh polishing oils from the UC or other compound, not because the underlying defects came out in those cases (such as buffing trails, deeper but fixable scratches, or better yet, fine sanding scratches, which will illustrate how little damage you're doing with the machine). Since then, I've moved to a more aggressive compound, so I don't have to put so much into it to get at those kinds of defects. Overall, though, DA compounding and polishing is far more safe and weak than we think when we start doing it - at first I was terrified of rubbing the paint off, but I slowly realized that's pretty well impossible with a DA, because the impact is so scattered and distributed and diffused. If you're not even using a Porter Cable, and are using a drill attachment or foam pads, it's even more astronomically impossible that you are doing any cutting at all, and without cutting, there is no clear removed. A good lesson is to try wet or dry sanding very, very carefully. You'll see how much clear comes off as dust, and even then, as you freak out seeing it, it's essentially negligible toward the thickness of the paint, though more likely to do damage and not something you can keep repeating. Try something else: Make a super-fine scratch on purpose with 3000-grit and the faintest pressure you can in one small stroke, something that cannot possibly do any real damage, and then see how much work it takes to remove it with a DA, assuming you get it at all with some combos. That's a great way to learn some facts about how your paint "responds", or how hard or resilient it is.

Anyway, all of this is just something that takes time, to try different combos, etc. You can generally compound and polish your car many times a year for many years, but the better job you do on your daily/weekly spray wax maintenance, though, the less you'll have to do full corrections, anyway.

[drumdan]

Re: ultra cut compound?

i think the panels i used ultimate compound on look the best, i dont know if the paint is hard or not so i dont know how much clear coat ive taken off, im wondering if there is enough to use 5 on it next time, ill prob just do it once and thats it, i really want that show car perfect finish, its close.


does the fact that the paint chips easy mean the paint is soft? its hard to get scratches and swirls out

The idea is to correct it once with a compound, then bring up the gloss with something like M205, or Ultimate Polish.

You can vary the amount of cut by changing up any or all of the following: Pressure, tool speed, arm speed, and even the amount of product.

From there, I mess with pads, and machines, but typically the Porter Cable with green light cut pads, blue polishing pads, and M100/UC are all I need to accomplish my jobs.

[MicrofiberMan]

Re: ultra cut compound?

Paint chipping, like those big ones on the leading edges of hoods from driving on interstates, usually means the paint is hard, but I'm sure there are exceptions, and all that. These days, I really doubt car makers are using soft paints and clears, because their application is so super-thin via paint robots, and if too soft it would make them look really bad when you almost wash the paint off and come back to complain after a few months. Recent paints sure seem super resilient, don't they?, despite being thinner than ever, so that kinda tells me they are all fairly hard - or at least, super resilient. Sometimes, people say paint is "soft" when they really mean it "responds to my pad/liquid/technique/command/etc", which isn't really the same thing at all, because much of that "response" is just us fooling ourselves with polishing oils and waxes rather than getting any actual abrasion or cut (just because it looks great, doesn't mean it was actually corrected). Personally, I think it's safe to assume all recent factory and body shop paints/clears are at least sufficiently hard to allow those of us using DA machines to stop worrying about how much clear some people think we're removing - but maybe I'm oversimplifying Quality body shop paint today can be at least twice as thick as factory, if not thicker, and just as hard or harder (or resilient), because they really don't want you coming back to complain.

You just have to experiment for yourself. I've used max speed and max pressure for (no-joke) dozens of long passes with UC on MF on hard paint and gotten nowhere, although the panel looked absolutely fantastic in most lights and you'd assume it was 100% perfect, but that's because it was covered in fresh polishing oils from the UC or other compound, not because the underlying defects came out in those cases (such as buffing trails, deeper but fixable scratches, or better yet, fine sanding scratches, which will illustrate how little damage you're doing with the machine). Since then, I've moved to a more aggressive compound, so I don't have to put so much into it to get at those kinds of defects. Overall, though, DA compounding and polishing is far more safe and weak than we think when we start doing it - at first I was terrified of rubbing the paint off, but I slowly realized that's pretty well impossible with a DA, because the impact is so scattered and distributed and diffused. If you're not even using a Porter Cable, and are using a drill attachment or foam pads, it's even more astronomically impossible that you are doing any cutting at all, and without cutting, there is no clear removed. A good lesson is to try wet or dry sanding very, very carefully. You'll see how much clear comes off as dust, and even then, as you freak out seeing it, it's essentially negligible toward the thickness of the paint, though more likely to do damage and not something you can keep repeating. Try something else: Make a super-fine scratch on purpose with 3000-grit and the faintest pressure you can in one small stroke, something that cannot possibly do any real damage, and then see how much work it takes to remove it with a DA, assuming you get it at all with some combos. That's a great way to learn some facts about how your paint "responds", or how hard or resilient it is.

Anyway, all of this is just something that takes time, to try different combos, etc. You can generally compound and polish your car many times a year for many years, but the better job you do on your daily/weekly spray wax maintenance, though, the less you'll have to do full corrections, anyway.

nice post ive easily removed 3000
grit sanding marks with ultimate compound but i realized this week that even though the panels ive done two times with ultimate compound and once with scratch x look great the original swirls are still there in very direct sunlight, i planning on doing the whole car 1 finial time next weekend with m101 and a cutting pad, i think my paint is hard now since all my other polishing sessions haven't really got rid of them. now i feel much more confident that my paint can take it, what compound do u use?

glad u mentioned the thickness of modern auto paints since im going to get the hood resprayed at somepoint over all the paint chips, its only two years old and there are hundreds of them

[MicrofiberMan]

Re: ultra cut compound?

The idea is to correct it once with a compound, then bring up the gloss with something like M205, or Ultimate Polish.

You can vary the amount of cut by changing up any or all of the following: Pressure, tool speed, arm speed, and even the amount of product.

From there, I mess with pads, and machines, but typically the Porter Cable with green light cut pads, blue polishing pads, and M100/UC are all I need to accomplish my jobs.

is the porter cable considered the best?

[Top Gear]

Re: ultra cut compound?

^^^ Yes, the PC is the best for the money, IMO.

nice post ive easily removed 3000
grit sanding marks with ultimate compound but i realized this week that even though the panels ive done two times with ultimate compound and once with scratch x look great the original swirls are still there in very direct sunlight, i planning on doing the whole car 1 finial time next weekend with m101 and a cutting pad, i think my paint is hard now since all my other polishing sessions haven't really got rid of them. now i feel much more confident that my paint can take it, what compound do u use?

Right, so that's a great illustration. True swirls are extremely superficial, and if you're not cutting those, you're not really cutting at all. I'll bet some of the sanding marks are still there, too, in the right angles of intense light. This was a revelation to me, and I was just shaking my head at how much work I'd put in to get nowhere trying to cut with UC - it was 99.5% fooling me with polishing oils and "powered claying". Now I use Mirror Glaze M101, which is very expensive, but is the most aggressive stuff Meg's makes, and several steps more aggressive than UC/M105 and D300. So, it's a LOT less work and frustration to get a better cut - one or two passes instead of dozens, and with an actual result.

glad u mentioned the thickness of modern auto paints since im going to get the hood resprayed at somepoint over all the paint chips, its only two years old and there are hundreds of them

Yes, the road rash on the hood can be reduced by using lots of spray wax very regularly, but it's inevitable. There are paint "blenders" who can fix small areas for a lot less than a body shop, but they can also be hacks. I fix the spots with a paint pen, sanding, and re-correcting, periodically.

[drumdan]

Re: ultra cut compound?

is the porter cable considered the best?

Heh!

Well, it depends on who you ask. I love them. They do a lot of work for the amount of money I spent on them.

I sold my Flex 3401 because I was consistently getting my desired results faster with the porter cable.

I do like my Rupes machines too. I have a Duetto, and Mini. I typically used them with Rupes' proprietary pads and polishes.

[MicrofiberMan]

Re: ultra cut compound?

i just ordered the 101, going to use it this weekend and hopefully it will be the last time i polish for a long while, i got the burgandy cutting disc but ill use the orange harbor freight one since maguires says the burgandy is to strong, either that or ill use the yellow maguires

[MicrofiberMan]

Re: ultra cut compound?

i used scratchx first the a few months later uc then uc again and they allmade a noticable diffrence so they did cut something, the swirls are only visible in the perfect direct sun light but they are there, i know they were there before i ever polished and much worse but what are the chances the polishing with the da is actually cuasing new swirls that i just think are the same as before? i always finished with 205 every time i polished