Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

[NYShine]

Having a quick look around I came across a PC 7346SP in stock at Lowes. It appears to be similar to the PC 7424XP. I will probably go with this or it's equivalent.


Specs from PC website -

Porter Cable 7346SP

6" Variable-Speed Random Orbit Sander with Polishing Pad
The 7346SP includes Polishing pad, PSA Pad, Sanding disc, Side handle, Wrench.

4.5 Amp, AC Only
Electronic variable-speed dial 2,500-6,800 OPM
Random orbit, swirl-free sanding/polishing action
Includes 6" proprietary counter balance for use with 6" sanding/polishing pad
Accepts 5/16 - 24 spindle thread accessories
Compact lightweight design - 6 lbs
100% ball and roller bearing construction

http://www.portercable.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=21428

I am attempting to remove or lessen to some degree old Tree Sap Etchings on a black '05 Hyundai Sonata. As well as clean up swirls and minor scratches.



Considering the task please advise me as to -

- Is the PC 7346SP in fact equivalent to the 7424XP ?

- Which Backing Plate and size should I go with ?

- Which types/sizes of Pad(s) should I go with ?

- Which Product(s) should I go with ?

- What speed(s) for which product/stage of process ?



I have both 105 and UC, as well as Mags polish and wax. From what I've read here this will be a multi step process, what is the proper order to follow ? And bare in mind I am a novice as this will be my first time. However I do have an old '97 Nissan I will work on first.

Thank you....

[Eldorado2k]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

If you're looking to buy an entry level polisher, why not get the HF DA over the Porter Cable? Including the 20% off coupon it's 62% less expensive than the Porter Cable. It's quieter, and more powerful too. [HF 5.7 amps vs. Porter Cable 4.5 amps]

Use the money you save to buy the 5" Megs DA Backing Plate
2 Foam Cutting Discs
2 Foam Polishing Discs
1 Foam Finishing Disc

Buy plenty [at least 12-15] of quality microfiber towels. [Megs Supreme Shines work great]

Start with the product you already have on hand.

[Top Gear]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

NYShine, the 7346SP is the same one I have, and it is indeed exactly the same as the 7424XP, as are other boxed models from PC. They put them with different attachments, but the actual machine is the same. The best backing plates are the Meguiar's DBP5 or W67DA (I think they are essentially the same, but the DBP5 is a newer design). I also highly recommend the 5-inch DAMF pads (ie. "discs"), but others will recommend the thin foam discs. Either pad set will work with either of those backing plates. I'm using DAMF 5-inch on the W67DA. If you go with DAMF, go ahead and get some D300, 302 and 301, but otherwise, what you already have is plenty to start with.

[The Guz]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

I found the harbor freight to be louder than the PC. It does have more power. With the fixes found on other sites it's an even better machine.

I would invest in this kit.

http://www.autodetailingsolutions.net/meguiars-foam-disc-5-inch-bundle.html

You are going to have to do a test spot with the least aggressive pad and liquid to see how the paint responds and go from there. Speed 5 on the PC is where you want to be at for doing any correction.

[NYShine]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

Thanks Eldorado that's quite a savings. I found a looong thread I've been reading through on the HF DA and it seems it's a good first timer and is about half the price of others.
Just to be sure will the HF work with the Meguiars DBP5 ? You mentioned picking up the 5" Megs DA Backing Plate, is that the one you were referring to ?



Top Gear are those 'DAMF' pads you're using the micro fiber ones ? From what I read they might be a bit too much at this point for someone new such as myself. Since I'm not at your level yet.



Guz, are the 'fixes' you mentioned repacking the gears with better grade grease ? haven't found any others.

Thanks for the link, I found Amazon prices are way too high for the very same.
How are the Lake Country Flat Foam 5.5" pads ? I see the same web site has

Lake Country Flat Foam 5.5" 6-Pack for $39.95

http://www.autodetailingsolutions.net/lake-country-5-5-inch-flat-foam-6-pack-special.html

and the Meguiars 5" DA Foam Disc 6-Pack for $53.99

http://www.autodetailingsolutions.net/meguiars-foam-disc-5-inch-bundle.html

That would almost pay for a new backing plate. Speaking of which would the LC 5.5" flat foams work with the Meguiars DBP5 ?

Also they are both a mix & match deal. Given that should I just get 2 of each, or more of one than another. In other words do certain pads wear out faster due to what you're using them for than others. I would think the cutting pads might wear faster than the waxing ones for example.


Anyway all in all which set up would be best for what I'm trying to accomplish ?


Thanks again....

[The Guz]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

The LC flat pads are good pads. They have the new thin ones at that same vendor. The Meguiar's backing plate will work with the, Thinner pads transform the PC entirely. You can't go wrong with either pads.

[Top Gear]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

Top Gear are those 'DAMF' pads you're using the micro fiber ones ? From what I read they might be a bit too much at this point for someone new such as myself. Since I'm not at your level yet.

Yes, sorry, the Dual Action Microfiber System in the Detailer Professional line, or DAMF.

The microfiber (MF) pads are not automatically more aggressive, but they certainly can be, based on how they are used. The Finishing Disc can for example be used instead of the Cutting or Xtra Cut disc to learn compounding, not to mention variations in speed, arm motion, and pressure. The microfibers of MF discs are pretty much the same across the three discs, but the foam backing material (which does not get soaked with product) gets thinner for each, to transfer more of the machine's energy to the paint (which is why the thin foam is more aggressive than the thick foam, all else equal). If you have hard paint or extensive correction to do (as in your shots), foam will waste a LOT of your time, as it did mine.

But, to be fair, I was using the thick foam, the "beginner foam", as I call it, the first generation Soft Buff Mirror Glaze pads that are like Nerf balls or microphone covers - they are almost useless for serious and ongoing deep cut correction work unless the paint is soft, and my paint is not soft. Even if it were soft, MF is just better in every way.

As Guz and others might well argue and often do, the new thin foam or LC varieties may be better than the thick foam and may approach what MF can do, but I'm not convinced. For me, I wanted a pad with the widest range and maximum aggression available for the DA. I mention "range" because MF can be as gentle as I may need it to be. MF rewards technique.

My point is, in my experience, MF can be as gentle as foam, but foam can't be as aggressive as MF.

Conversely, you'll try in absolute vain to get more aggression out of a foam pad that just doesn't have it to give. Maybe the thin foam is better, or maybe it's just an incremental improvement over the thick foam and you'll need the next click than what they can offer, as I feared. Also, foam in general has other drawbacks, such as wasting more product by soaking more up and away from the edge, getting chewed up more easily around the car's edges or when trying to get aggressive, and they cannot be cleaned on the fly, so you have to buy lots of pads or possibly overuse a smaller number, and then they are harder to clean. So for me, foam winds up costing more and requires more effort.

Yet, foam pads might be best for someone just starting out, say for a year's worth of testing things out - which is about how long they will last, anyway. However, I wouldn't buy a bunch of pads. Just get 3, cutting, polishing and finishing. You can always get more later if you like them, or you can switch to MF without having spent so much on pads you won't ever use again.

[Eldorado2k]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

Good questions.
Yes I was referring to the DBP5. The LC Flat Foam pads work fine with it. Those were the kind of pads I started off with. You have the right idea as far as setup. If I were choosing again I'd go 3 Orange, 2 White, and 1 Black.

Don't forget to print your 20% off coupon before you go to HF because they won't have any for you there. Lol.

If for whatever reason you choose to buy a PC, you might as well just get an MT300 for a few bucks more.

I would also recommend getting a proper extention cord [if you don't already have 1] that's able to power the DA without breaking a sweat. And make sure it's long enough too. I went with a 14 gauge 50' cord.
Good luck and have fun.

[NYShine]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

Don't forget to print your 20% off coupon before you go to HF because they won't have any for you there. Lol.

Thank you guys, sounds like a plan ! The information you all shared was invaluable.
I'll probably go with the DBP5, foam and the HF DA for now and after some time when I'm ready to step up my game and play with the big boys I'll consider moving on.


Eldorado, speaking of the 20% off coupon. Every coupon I came across online and wanted to print out states 'Non Transferable - Original coupon must be presented'
Will the stores accept these anyway or are there actual printable coupons available ? Most of the posts I read say they printed out their 20 off coupon, but didn't clarify as to where they found them and what type of coupons they were... But for 40 some dollars it sounds like a good starter DA ... and I happen to have a HF right here.

[Eldorado2k]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

The coupon doesnt have to be off an official mailer or anything. A simple printout of the coupon on the screen on plain white copy paper works fine. They just need to be able to scan the barcode on the paper.

Last time I was there I simply showed the cashier the HF text on my phone and saved my friend $7 on a heatgun he was buying.. Just make sure the coupon date is still valid and not expired. You might have to wait till tomorrow as I just checked and the coupon I saw says "valid thru July 31"
You can call the 800# on the coupon for the offical word from HF. Most likely they'll have the updated coupon tomorrow.

Side note: I've never tried the MF towels from HF and probably never will.. If you're not interested in getting all fancy with the towels I hear the Costco MF towels do just fine, especially when they're fresh & new.

[The Guz]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

You can do a search for a coupon on your phone and just show it the cashier. That's what I do and it has worked everytime.

[davey g-force]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

Also, foam in general has other drawbacks... ...they cannot be cleaned on the fly,

Of course they can! The term (and process of) "cleaning on the fly' has been around for much longer than MF pads have!

Also, IME, I don't think foam uses more product at all.

Don't get me wrong, I love the DAMF pads - in fact I was going to recommend them to the OP, but it sounds like he has made up his mind now.

[Eldorado2k]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

We've created an animal... Lmao.

[Top Gear]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

LOL Just providing an equally valid perspective based on my own experiences. There are so many product choices from Meguiar's alone, so I'm not sure why every thread seems to get answered with this religious push for thin foam and UW, or why other choices kinda get shouted down DAMF, carnauba-based waxes, the entire Gold Class and Main lines, etc, are not only just as good, but cost about the same and are arguably better for a wide number of applications. Just sayin'

[The Guz]

Re: Need Advice On Appropriate Backing Plate, Pads, Products

I think we get that you like the DAMF system. It's a great system. It works great on hard paints. It's just not needed for every situation. For one thing we don't know how hard or soft the paint is on the OP's car. Microfiber is aggressive and there is no sense in starting off with the most aggressive approach. Microfiber instills it's own defects on softer paints in the form of tick marks and DA haze. Yes they can be remedied. Why do you think we always recommend a test spot with the least aggressive method.

Foam has been around for years and has gotten the job done up to this day. They have come along way with the advancement in foam pad design, foam material, foam structure. If you have not given the new thin foam pads a shot I recommend you do. They are light years ahead of thicker pads. Foam is good place for a newbie to start. By the way you are the first person to ever say that foam pads can't be cleaned on the fly when they actually can.

I would actually recommend the OP to pick up a package of the microfiber cutting pads. One never knows what is needed.

In regards to your claim about some of us shutting down the other lines. Nobody has said that they don't perform. When someone new joins the forum they typically look for a product that offers longer protection. Ultimate Wax is pretty darn close to having that carnauba look. Have you tried it? If not you should. Carnauba has it's place. Carnauba can also mute flakes in the paint. The way I see it is for a car that is driven daily and sits outside most of the time should get something longer lasting and more durable. In this case any of the Meguiar's sealant are the way to go. Carnauba's are great for those cars that garage queens or show cars. Some just don't like waxing that often.

I think the OP made an excellent choice in his decision and he will learn as he goes. He will find what he likes in time.