Super newbie with question about holograms.

[Bobp823]

Well I got my truck painted a couple years ago and when I got it back in sunlight I could see holograms.I took it back to the shop that painted it but they said they couldn't see anything twice!So I'm finally getting around to correcting this so I need some advice.Im wondering what product to use and should I do it by hand or buy the meguires DA?The truck hasn't been waxed yet.Any help I would really appreciate.Thanks!

[The Guz]

Re: Super newbie with question about holograms.

Welcome to MOL. You came to the right place. We will help you get those holograms removed.

You would probably make it look better by hand but a DA will net you better results. Plus the DA will save your arms from feeling like they are falling off. They are worth the investment.

Locally you can pick up ultimate compound and ultimate polish or M105 and M205. Both combinations will fix those holograms. I would recommend you pick up ultimate compound as it is more user friendly and M205. M205 will give more correction than ultimate polish and it still finishes nicely.

As always, the test spot is recommend with the least aggressive combo. So start with either ultimate polish or M205 on a polishing pad. Then work from there.

If you get a DA, consider the new Meguiar's thin foam pads. They are excellent.

[Murr1525]

Re: Super newbie with question about holograms.

Well I got my truck painted a couple years ago and when I got it back in sunlight I could see holograms.I took it back to the shop that painted it but they said they couldn't see anything twice!So I'm finally getting around to correcting this so I need some advice.Im wondering what product to use and should I do it by hand or buy the meguires DA?The truck hasn't been waxed yet.Any help I would really appreciate.Thanks!

Have you done much detailing before?

Sometimes good to start work a good general detail before tackling the tough stuff.

[Top Gear]

Re: Super newbie with question about holograms.

If the paint is "hard" from the body shop, the holograms will require a lot more work that it seems using a DA, and it is near enough impossible by hand. If it had not been 2 years, I'd try to get the holograms in photos and also show the body shop guys the holograms in the sunlight. It would take them a lot less time and trouble to fix their work with a rotary, but also a risk they will do more damage if they are hacks. Since it's been 2 years, they cannot verify it wasn't something else that caused them.

So, you may have to damp, wet, or dry sand these holograms if the paint is hard because a DA will likely never get them. With experience, you'll be able to tell once you start compounding with a DA and checking with sunlight or a bright light. I wish I could say this will be easy, Bobp, but in my experience, it's going to be a sharp learning curve to go from being a newbie to removing buffer trails/holograms. We're here to help, though!

[davey g-force]

Re: Super newbie with question about holograms.

I must say that I disagree with Guz (partly) and Top Gear.

If they really are holograms from a rotary buffer, they should be easily removed with a fine to medium polish and a polishing pad on a DA. Holograms are generally very light (shallow) defects. M205 on a yellow pad via DA is a very common and effective way of removing most holograms. I've even removed (not hidden) them with ColorX!

You should not need UC / M105 and definitely nothing as aggressive as sanding!
(Please don't do any sanding to your vehicle, especially if you're not experienced. There is a good chance you will make it far worse!)

[The Guz]

Re: Super newbie with question about holograms.

Well holograms are one thing but the shop could have also installed swirls into the paint. He would need to do a test spot to see what product he needs.

[Murr1525]

Re: Super newbie with question about holograms.

Most likely, holograms from a machine will be deeper than some swirls from a rag.

But either way, it will probably need a machine to remove. A DA should be enough, and the right products/techniques.

Might need a little practice though.

[davey g-force]

Re: Super newbie with question about holograms.

He would need to do a test spot to see what product he needs.

^^ This!

(but it won't be wet sanding!)

[Bobp823]

Re: Super newbie with question about holograms.

I appreciate all the input guys.So which of the compounds is the least aggressive and i will start with that???

[Top Gear]

Re: Super newbie with question about holograms.

Well, I don't think we're disagreeing, except for paint hardness, which totally changes the order-of-magnitude scale of what is needed. Davey, if you're getting actual rotary buffer trails out that easily with a DA and mere polish, that's awesome and I'm jealous, but it's not very hard paint (indeed, be very careful!). There may also be a difference between US and AU body shop practices?

With factory and body shop 2-stage hardened paint in my experience, however, it's a whole other story. Sanding (or non-hack careful rotary work) is most likely required because almost no amount of DA work with any pad or product will ever get the deeper trails out fully - that's how hard some of this paint can be. Holograms (which look like auroras in the right light as you move your head) can be easier to remove with a lot of patient work as they are shallower, but the buffer trails (which look like long-arc comets across the sky) can be a lot deeper - though still very shallow overall in the clear coat. These defects were created when the paint wasn't even cured, but you're trying to fix them well after it's fully hardened. With such hard paint and a pass or two of polish or compound, you will only fill buffer trails with polishing oils and then wax, pat yourself on the back, but then a few days later (after rains/washes) there they are again.

Indeed, if you don't have experience with paint this maddeningly hard, it's often difficult just to get regular spiderwebs or swirls out, and those are even more shallow than these holograms, much less the buffer trails. So many threads on this site reveal that people are dealing with hard paint using soft paint methods and precautions (I sure was). So, how easy it is to get swirl-free, assuming you even can, is an indication of how hard the paint is, and how easy or not it will be to remove holograms, and then buffer trails.

Yes, then, not only is a test spot needed, but I'd do a spot or two with different combos and then wait until the wax wears off. If they are still there, you could spend the next few weeks trying the next more aggressive combo, and the next, and the next. Sandpaper really is the best way at this point, and it's an order-of-magnitude easier to lightly scuff those trails out with 1500/3000 and then pull the sanding marks out, rather than spend days and days and days of work trying "aggressive" compounding all for naught.

In fact, before doing any of that, I'd just start by going back to the same body shop to ask a manager or paint guy in detail what they sprayed, how hard it is, and what they recommend. Maybe they'll buff them out for a small fee, or recommend someone who can.

[The Guz]

Re: Super newbie with question about holograms.

I appreciate all the input guys.So which of the compounds is the least aggressive and i will start with that???

See if you can find some M205 locally. Try that with a polishing pad if you are using a DA. If you need more correction then you can step up to a compound like ultimate compound and a light cutting pad if you are using a DA. If you are doing this by hand a yellow foam applicator would be a good place to start with either product.


Good luck and post photos.

[greg0303]

Re: Super newbie with question about holograms.

The aggressiveness level needed, to effectively remove those holograms, will depend on their depth and the hardness of your paint. You mentioned that your truck has been repainted which usually indicates softer paint than this factory baked original one. Using a dual action polisher will make your task easier and faster. Test spot(s) would show if milder products, like M205 Ultra Finishing Polish or Ultimate Polish, are aggressive enough or if you need to step up to something stronger, like Ultimate Compound. I doubt that paint sanding will be needed.

[Top Gear]

Re: Super newbie with question about holograms.

Actually, big shop painters more and more match factory codes and hardness perfectly, or go harder. They don't have time to spray soft paints that won't last when they boast of lifetime warranties. Also, re-sprays or panel matches can be at least twice as thick as stock but still a perfect match visually.

Back in the day, a paint match could be way off, but today that makes very little business sense for the huge body shop chains dealing with so many cars and potential social media complaints. Just like the factories, they want durable paint hardness so they won't have to deal with customers "twice", as the OP said. That means the paints will chip instead of wear, and they will be extremely hard to correct once they cure - but that's not their problem.

Any given car from the 90s may have very soft paint with an easy-to-fail clear coat, such that much of the "least aggressive" correction advice found on this site and others will be perfect for them. No argument. Yet, for a newer car, or a recently re-painted car from a big shop, when the defects inevitably build up on hard paints the safe approach (with a DA machine, and especially with foam pads) will more likely mean spending LOTS and LOTS of time getting little more done than powered "claying" and spreading polishing oils. The good news is that many superficial scratches and scuffs are easy to deal with that way with no risk of doing any damage, but deeper defects are beyond the DA and "polishing" techniques.

Consequently, I think sanding and rotaries are getting more attention from weekenders and pros alike. I also think from reading threads here that I'm not alone in being fed up with which compound is incrementally more aggressive than another, because none of them are anywhere near aggressive enough (using a DA) to get serious correction on a buffer trail or RID or other issues when the factory or body shop paint is as diamond-hard as it can be today.

So, I do completely agree with the others if we're talking about soft paints, but not at all regarding hard paints.

[The Guz]

Re: Super newbie with question about holograms.

Test spot. Test spot. Test spot.

[jjrakwichian]

Re: Super newbie with question about holograms.

Well I got my truck painted a couple years ago and when I got it back in sunlight I could see holograms.I took it back to the shop that painted it but they said they couldn't see anything twice!So I'm finally getting around to correcting this so I need some advice.Im wondering what product to use and should I do it by hand or buy the meguires DA?The truck hasn't been waxed yet.Any help I would really appreciate.Thanks!

YOu can do it by hand, but that will take you forever to fish the job tho........

1.) You can walk into AutoZone and get a consumer version which is the Meguiars Ultimate Compound and it is almost as same as M100 or M105, but much easier to work with and will have a longer working time.

2.) Same as above except that instead getting the Ultimate compound, now get the Meguairs Ultimate " POLISH ". Again this is as same as M205 and this M205 will get the job done most of the time, but again it depends on the condition of that hologram. This may or may not require you to get both products.

NOW, as for an DA machine, The MT300 is Recommended machine not if you are the Newbie to this then, just go for Porter Cable 7424 because this DA machine for an Entry Level, but again, if you want the good last long Machine with the power to Correction the Defect then the MT300 is the way to go.

Hope that this will help you.