Question about D114

[GettingStarted]

If at the end of a rinseless wash I still have a clean towel thats soaked in solution, could I wring it out very thoroughly and use to it wipe down the hard plastics of my interior and then apply my dressing of choice?

[davey g-force]

Re: Question about D114

I suppose it depends how dirty the wash solution was, but I can't see too much of a problem...

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Question about D114

If you're using the "Garry Dean Wash Method" whereby you fill your bucket with appropriately diluted wash solution and then sink a pile of towels into it, you set yourself up for all kinds of great cleaning opportunities!

A very common practice here, for those not familiar, is to pull the first towel out of the bucket and use one of the 8 sides (folded in quarters, a towel does indeed yield 8 sides) to clean part of a panel and use a second towel to immediately dry the area. Flip the towel and clean another area, drying immediately. Continue this until you've used 4 of the 8 sides, at which point you've lost enough of the cleaning solution out of the towel that you should move on to a fresh cleaning towel. Never introduce a contaminated towel back into the wash bucket! You'll keep the wash water clean this way and maximize efficiency. But don't just throw that first towel into the laundry just yet: instead keep it folded and just lay it on a Grit Guard and let it sit. As you continue using up towels to wash the car, set them aside in a growing stack on that Grit Guard. When the car is clean, pick up one of those used towels, expose one of the 4 unused sides, wring it out, and use that to clean glass, door jambs, interior surfaces, etc.

The whole process can clean a full sized car with less than a gallon of water. A Gamma seal on the bucket means you can load a 5 gallon bucket with wash solution and towels, secure it, and always have wash solution ready to go. Doing this at home, I normally have enough solution in the bucket to wash as many as 10 vehicles (depending on how dirty they are, of course).

[tiSS'er]

Re: Question about D114

If you're using the "Garry Dean Wash Method" whereby you fill your bucket with appropriately diluted wash solution and then sink a pile of towels into it, you set yourself up for all kinds of great cleaning opportunities!

A very common practice here, for those not familiar, is to pull the first towel out of the bucket and use one of the 8 sides (folded in quarters, a towel does indeed yield 8 sides) to clean part of a panel and use a second towel to immediately dry the area. Flip the towel and clean another area, drying immediately. Continue this until you've used 4 of the 8 sides, at which point you've lost enough of the cleaning solution out of the towel that you should move on to a fresh cleaning towel. Never introduce a contaminated towel back into the wash bucket! You'll keep the wash water clean this way and maximize efficiency. But don't just throw that first towel into the laundry just yet: instead keep it folded and just lay it on a Grit Guard and let it sit. As you continue using up towels to wash the car, set them aside in a growing stack on that Grit Guard. When the car is clean, pick up one of those used towels, expose one of the 4 unused sides, wring it out, and use that to clean glass, door jambs, interior surfaces, etc.

The whole process can clean a full sized car with less than a gallon of water. A Gamma seal on the bucket means you can load a 5 gallon bucket with wash solution and towels, secure it, and always have wash solution ready to go. Doing this at home, I normally have enough solution in the bucket to wash as many as 10 vehicles (depending on how dirty they are, of course).

This is exactly what I do. I can wash a full car with less than 1 gallon of water. I use the GD method exactly as Mike mentions above. Once done, I reuse one of the towels to do the windows (always do these after the painted panels, but before the door jambs and wheels).

Where I slightly differ is this: I use a pressure sprayer from Home Depot ( http://www.homedepot.com/p/RL-Flo-Ma...56HD/100164531 ) to pre-treat the panels before I wash. I simply use the standard wash dilution as I am only dealing with light dust. Is it necessary, probably not, but I fell more comfortable with some solution on the paint before I wipe. Now, since I only use clean towels that are soaked in the rinseless wash, the solution is clean. When done with the painted panels, I then refill the sprayer with the rinseless in the wash bucket. This ensures I have a full sprayer for my next wash and leaves a few ounces for doing the wheels and jambs (separate specific towels for the wheels and jambs..think Costco). I may have 10-12 oz of water left after the complete wash which I dump in the yard.

The above method allows me to wash my cars with the least amount of water and solution, with very little if any waste. I love this process, so much better than a traditional wash for me. I then wipe out the wash bucket and I am prepared for the next wash.

[The Guz]

Re: Question about D114

^^^ You are not alone. There are quite a few of us who pre soak the panel prior to using the GD method. Works great that way. Also rebottling the clean solution is smart. I do the same an pour it into a few empty bottles which I can use as a QD or as a pre-soak to the GD method.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Question about D114

Where I slightly differ is this: I use a pressure sprayer from Home Depot ( http://www.homedepot.com/p/RL-Flo-Ma...56HD/100164531 ) to pre-treat the panels before I wash. I simply use the standard wash dilution as I am only dealing with light dust. Is it necessary, probably not, but I fell more comfortable with some solution on the paint before I wipe. Now, since I only use clean towels that are soaked in the rinseless wash, the solution is clean. When done with the painted panels, I then refill the sprayer with the rinseless in the wash bucket. This ensures I have a full sprayer for my next wash and leaves a few ounces for doing the wheels and jambs (separate specific towels for the wheels and jambs..think Costco). I may have 10-12 oz of water left after the complete wash which I dump in the yard.

The above method allows me to wash my cars with the least amount of water and solution, with very little if any waste. I love this process, so much better than a traditional wash for me. I then wipe out the wash bucket and I am prepared for the next wash.

Great point about the pre treating! Certainly the dirtier the car is the more important it is to consider doing this, while some still aren't quite sure about rinseless washing so some pretreating, even on a car that isn't all that dirty, just makes them feel better about the process. That's great, as it gets people thinking about ways that best fit their work flow and specific situation. Those pump sprayers are great for anything from pretreating before a rinseless to delivery of a waterless wash (think D115 Rinse Free Express Wash & Wax), or use of a panel wipe while compounding, or if you're a regular user of quick detail sprays purchased in bulk (M135, Last Touch, etc).

[tiSS'er]

Re: Question about D114

Great point about the pre treating! Certainly the dirtier the car is the more important it is to consider doing this, while some still aren't quite sure about rinseless washing so some pretreating, even on a car that isn't all that dirty, just makes them feel better about the process. That's great, as it gets people thinking about ways that best fit their work flow and specific situation. Those pump sprayers are great for anything from pretreating before a rinseless to delivery of a waterless wash (think D115 Rinse Free Express Wash & Wax), or use of a panel wipe while compounding, or if you're a regular user of quick detail sprays purchased in bulk (M135, Last Touch, etc).

A bit off topic, but a question with respect to D115. Is it a synthetic wax like D156? I ask because I am having ghosting issues right now on the bonnet of my black car. I live in Phoenix, so temps are about 110. I have had the ghosting issues with both UPW and GCCP, more so with GCCP. The ghosting can easily be wiped off with M135, and I have no issues afterwards. I did try washing with Pinnacle Waterless wash which has some level of Caranuba in it, and that ghosted as well. Wondering is D115 would solve my problem.

I guess I need to test D156 and see if that ghosts on the bonnet.

[The Guz]

Re: Question about D114

I believe D115 has carnauba in it. It's more than likely to hot to lay down UW or GC on that black paint. Does it do this if you are in the shade? You could try D114 since that has no wax and follow with either M135 or D156.

[tiSS'er]

Re: Question about D114

I believe D115 has carnauba in it. It's more than likely to hot to lay down UW or GC on that black paint. Does it do this if you are in the shade? You could try D114 since that has no wax and follow with either M135 or D156.

I apply my waxes in the garage to a cool surface. I typically won't drive the car for at least 12 or more hours after waxing. Once I get out in the hot sun, the bonnet and other horizontal surfaces have this gray tint to them. It can easily be wiped off with M135 and it doesn't come back (at least not yet after a few afternoon jaunts). The first time I removed the ghosting was with Pinnacle Waterless wash which has caranuba in it. The ghosting reappeared the next day i went out in the heat, though it wasn't as bad and i suspect this is due smaller quantity of wax. I then cleaned the bonnet with M135 and the rest of the car with Pinnacle, and the ghosting returned to the trunk area which was treated with Pinnacle. Again, very light but noticeable under the right lighting. This leads me to believe that M135 will solve the issue, I have yet to test D156. However, if D115 doesn't do it, then I may be in business. I really like the way Pinnacle makes my car look, and it is super slick afterwards. I may just pickup some UWWA tomorrow and do a waterless with that and see how the car comes out.

I just don't want to have to treat my car with M135 after I wax it, but if I need to no biggie. I would also prefer to not have to treat with M135 after a waterless wash. I am also going to try UWW+.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Question about D114

tiSS'er, we sort of hate to say this, but your situation is one of those oddball things were you're just going to have to experiment to see what works. We know a guy who used to fight with a cloudy film on his black car no matter which quick detailer he used - sort of the opposite of your issue. Every one of them left a film on his paint that would leave little trails if you ran your fingers through it, but in a matter of minutes those trails would go away, as if the film sort of flowed back into place. Very strange situation and we ultimately discovered that ONLY M35 Final Inspection eliminated the phenomenon. Haven't seen it before or since, and can't explain just what was really going on, either.

[tiSS'er]

Re: Question about D114

tiSS'er, we sort of hate to say this, but your situation is one of those oddball things were you're just going to have to experiment to see what works. We know a guy who used to fight with a cloudy film on his black car no matter which quick detailer he used - sort of the opposite of your issue. Every one of them left a film on his paint that would leave little trails if you ran your fingers through it, but in a matter of minutes those trails would go away, as if the film sort of flowed back into place. Very strange situation and we ultimately discovered that ONLY M35 Final Inspection eliminated the phenomenon. Haven't seen it before or since, and can't explain just what was really going on, either.

No worries Mike, not an issue. M135 has proven to be a solution. No issues since I wiped the car down with it. I did pick up some Ultimate Wash and Wax Anywhere today and will give it a try today when I waterless wash my car. I should know in a couple of days if the wax in this product ghosts. If not, I have a winner, if so, I'll keep looking. I just don't want to have to M135 after a waterless. If it is a necessity, then so be it, it is only for a few months in the really hot summer. This wasn't an issue during the cooler winter months.

[tiSS'er]

Re: Question about D114

I picked up some UWWA today and tried it out on my black car. I pulled out my detailing light as to be sure I get the car as perfect as possible. UWWA did not disappoint. I ended up using 7 towels, 6 cleaning and 1 buffing. UWWA has great lubricity, a very nice smell, and has the nicest finish of any waterless wash I have used to date. Any streaking easily was buffed off and the paint was left very clean with a very nice, clear reflection.

Now the real test, will the wax cause ghosting or not. I'll post back as soon as I know.

Can D114 be diluted and used as a waterless wash? If so, what is the dilution ratio?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Question about D114

tiSS'er, your findings with UWWA echo what we keep hearing about, and it sounds as though you are very particular about your paint finish (and yes, that's a VERY good thing around here!!) your observations are that much more telling.

As for using D114 as a waterless wash, yes, you can do it even though we haven't really specified a dilution ratio for that method. D114 was specifically designed to be a waterless wash and we recommend that process with it. D115, Rinse Free Express Wash & Wax, however, works great as a waterless wash. It's basically a concentrated version of UWWA and even though the directions state a 4:1 dilution for use as a waterless wash, as a rinseless it works great even at 10:1. In fact, just before dinner this evening I washed two of our cars with D115 at that ratio and, as always, they came out great!

[tiSS'er]

Re: Question about D114

tiSS'er, your findings with UWWA echo what we keep hearing about, and it sounds as though you are very particular about your paint finish (and yes, that's a VERY good thing around here!!) your observations are that much more telling.

As for using D114 as a waterless wash, yes, you can do it even though we haven't really specified a dilution ratio for that method. D114 was specifically designed to be a waterless wash and we recommend that process with it. D115, Rinse Free Express Wash & Wax, however, works great as a waterless wash. It's basically a concentrated version of UWWA and even though the directions state a 4:1 dilution for use as a waterless wash, as a rinseless it works great even at 10:1. In fact, just before dinner this evening I washed two of our cars with D115 at that ratio and, as always, they came out great!

Thanks for the feedback Mike. Hoping UWWA is the ticket so I can grab a gallon of D115. I have yet to try D114, but it is on my list. I almost exclusively waterless and rinseless wash my cars now. I find that a 2-3 quick washes a week is much easier than pulling our the hose and buckets, and dealing with our hard water, especially on my black car. I have convinced myself that most of the swirls I was getting was due to drying, and the pressure required when drying to avoid water spots. Not to mention the rapid pace in which I had to dry, using caution and proper technique often went out the door in an effort to prevent water spots.

I have polished 2 panels on my car to near perfection as test panels. This was 3 months ago. The goal is to determine how long I can go before I see swirls. There are no fillers on these panels, they are waxed with UPW. Thus far, I have yet to have a single swirl, confirming several things.

1. Technique is critical
2. Quality MF towels are a must, and having 20+ of them really helps. I can now just grab a clean towel rather than over-using a dirty one
3. Working panel by panel has allowed me to slow down and focus on the task at hand allowing me to use proper technique
4. Soft water in a shaded garage with cool surfaces is heavenly

I've posted these before, and I'm not much into taking photos of my car, but this will get you an idea of what I am working with, and why I have become obsessed with detailing. These pics were taken about 6 months ago, after I aquired the car. Polished with M205 and topped with UPW. This car has some of the nicest paint I have ever seen on any car. There is nearly no orange peel, and it is a near perfect mirror. It hurts me to see it dusty.

[tiSS'er]

Re: Question about D114

just an update, I did get the usual ghosting with UWWA, same issue I have had with all the other waterless washes. Oh well, UWWA still produces the nicest finish of any of them, and another point of interest, it has accumulated far less dust than any of the others. Normally a drive to work and back in Phoenix and my car has a layer of dust. Not so with UWWA, looks like I just washed it. Very impressive.