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**Selectchoice** · Jan 26, 2014, 09:25 AM

Re: G110V2 or G220V2 - Questions on Cruise Control and other feature

You've really given this a lot of thought haven't you?

Before any advice is given in relation to a particular machine brand or specifics, may I ask what it is you're seeking from a DA polisher? What are your goals and what will you be using the machine for mostly? Private use, business use? Have you had any experience with a powered polisher before, good or bad?

**scoutfai** · Jan 26, 2014, 04:42 PM

Re: G110V2 or G220V2 - Questions on Cruise Control and other feature

Originally posted by Selectchoice View Post

You've really given this a lot of thought haven't you?

Before any advice is given in relation to a particular machine brand or specifics, may I ask what it is you're seeking from a DA polisher? What are your goals and what will you be using the machine for mostly? Private use, business use? Have you had any experience with a powered polisher before, good or bad?

Yah Selectchoice you read my mind

. As you can see due to the shipment and some government tax, the machines sold here are import unit and are rather more expensive than the one sold in the US or UK, despite they are the same machine. I plan to have it for about 10 years and wish in this time I do not have the need to invest into another machine again unless it breaks down. I might invest into a rotary since even a Makita unit sold here is much cheaper than the price of the two DA mentioned in my 1st post, so it is affordable to get one easily.

I am weekend warrior, taking care of my own car and two family cars only. I am not doing it for business, at least now I do not have the skill required to be a part time business detailer, nor do I have the plan as of this moment. Because of that, I mostly will use the machine for applying polishing oil or glaze, waxing and removing wax once every month. I am looking at maybe twice a year use it for swirl or scratch removal for each car (entire car), as well as glass polishing to remove the stubborn water stain mark. Because I wash the car myself on weekly basic, so I pretty much protect it from swirl induced by improper wash technique, hence I do not need to do below surface defect removal that frequently.

As for experience of using powered polisher, zero

. So I think I am in the bad category.
But since kid time I have been helping my dad in his carpenter workshop, so I have used quite a lot of different power tools for wood work, example electrical saw, chain saw, hand drill, impact drill, belt sander, grinder, etc. I am not saying that I am expert in handling all of these wood work tools but I have experience using them, I am not afraid of the power and the sound they makes, my hands are more easily adapt to power tools compare to average joe out there. But I have never work on car paint surface before. I expect it will require a different level of care and delicate hands, but I am confidence with a bit of training I will get use to it quickly.

Just an additional information to share, Flex 3401 is sold here too but it cost US dollar 715 (after currency conversion) which is about 3 times the costs of Ultramate, plus it cannot use other size backing plate (I have intention to use 3" backing plate), so despite I knew it is a great tool but the price tag and backing plate limitation kind of hold me away from it.

**Detail Werks** · Jan 27, 2014, 12:06 PM

I would HIGHLY recommend looking into the Rupes line. You will find an abundance of information as well as the ability to purchase them at www.buffdaddy.com.

**Michael Stoops** · Jan 27, 2014, 04:30 PM

Re: G110V2 or G220V2 - Questions on Cruise Control and other feature

You're asking a lot of really good questions so we'll try to answer them in turn. See our comments in red for each of your questions.

Originally posted by scoutfai View Post

I am not sure this question has been brought up before but I am unable to find the answer I am looking for so I have to make a post to ask here.

I have watch plenty of youtube videos and posts that demonstrate the cruise control feature of the Meguiar's DA Polisher G110V2 (or G220V2 for the place I am living at).

Typical scene in the video is the user turns on the machine, it spins, then applies pressure on top, and the sound of the machine changes, which is claimed to be an indication of cruise control in action (I do not doubt that), and then pressure released, the sound of the machine changes again to the state like the beginning.

Posts explaining the cruise control feature typically just telling the readers that there is a circuit in the machine, once it senses the pad rotation is about to bog down, it feeds more torque to the motor in an attempt to keep the pad rotating. It does not explain what means the circuit uses to sense the pad is about to bog down though (I do not blame that since this is more like electrical/electronic discussion). There is also no explanation on how far the cruise control can help at each speed setting used by the user.

So I have to make assumption here.

I am assuming the cruise control will automatically increases the speed setting when it is triggered on to a higher speed setting than the one the user is currently using. For example, if I was running at speed 3 on the dial, I press on the pad till it almost bog down, then the cruise control increase it to 4, maybe even 5 or 6 if bog down still continue to be sensed by the circuit.
No. The Cruise Control feature will maintain tool speed as close to the actual speed setting as possible once pressure is applied to the tool. Think about the cruise control in your car: you set it at speed 50 (50mph or kph) and the car maintains that speed on a flat road. On the G110v2 you set the tool to speed 5 and the tool maintains that speed. Now you approach a hill in your car, and unless the cruise control allows the engine to pick up speed (output more power) the car will slow down due to the force of gravity. The car does not exceed the maximum speed setting (50) although it might slow down a bit at first. The same happens with the buffer when you apply pressure. It will slow down a bit at first, but the cruise control will work to keep it as close to that speed setting of 5 as possible. It won't make the tool spin faster than the setting you put it at, but it will minimize how much it slows down. This is what you're hearing in those videos when listening to the sound of the tool under varying pressure loads.
Question:
(1) If my assumption is right, then, wouldn't it means that as the speed setting on the dial is higher, the effectiveness of the cruise control will be getting lowered?
Because if one was initially running at speed 1 on the dial, then the cruise control has room of adjustment from 2 up to 6 when it senses bog down.
If one was initially running at speed 5, then the most the cruise control can do is to bring the motor speed up to 6 and that's it, because that is the maximum, unless the machine has been programmed to automatically run above speed 6 setting which is 6800 OPM, a speed that cannot be selected by the user but can be selected by machine circuit. However I intuitively think that this is not the case, 68000 OPM should be the absolute maximum running speed of the machine, regardless of it is selected by user or program.
{ I expect some of you will comment that this is not the issue because as speed setting is higher, it is harder to get bog down. I agree. But I am not discussing this. I merely need a confirmation from anyone who has put the machine to this level of evaluation, be it from Meguiar's or non-Meguiar's. }
Actually, the opposite is true. The circuitry in the tool is actually more efficient at higher speeds, out of necessity, really. It is very rare that a lot of pressure is used at slower speed settings as those settings are generally for doing very non invasive work on the paint - ie finish polishing and/or waxing - as these almost never require much pressure at all.
(2) If my assumption is right, so cruise control will essentially cease to exist when the user is running at speed 6 on the dial, is it correct to say so?
Well, because I assume 6800 OPM is the absolute maximum running speed of the machine. I knew from what I read here there is almost no people use speed 6 as someone stated before it tends to destroy the velco of the pad. But still I am curious to know the exact answer.
For the reasons noted above, your assumption is incorrect. Obviously the circuitry is not going to be able to run the tool at a higher speed than the speed controller allows, it just helps to overcome the drag created by the pressure.
(3) How is the cruise control circuit senses the pad is going to bog down?
Does it senses the torque resistance changes on the motor, or it senses the increase in current pass through the motor coil as the motor is forced to spin slower, or some tachometer sensor around the free rotating spindle head?
It's all based on current flow, and that's as specific as we're willing to get.

(4) Can user select a speed setting in between the number on the dial?
For example, can I turn the dial to speed 3.5 and will the machine responses by giving me a speed in between speed 3 and speed 4, or will it just simply round it up to speed 4 or keep at 3.
The speed dial is infinitely variable between 1 and 6 and there are no detents at the numbered speed settings. As such, the actual speed of the tool is as variable as the possible settings of the speed dial.
(4.1) If intermediate speed can be selected on dial, what is the minimum step of increment? 0.5 (half), 0.25 (quarter), or even smaller step?
I am assuming the dial is a digital dial and not analog dial (if it is analog then one can have infinitely many option of speed between 0 to 6).
See above.
(5) Does the speed number on the dial snap into position when it is turned to a number (as in there is a "click" mechanism) or just turn smoothly from 0 to 6?
See above.
(6) The G110v2 (or G220V2) has been advertised to be a machine with the most versatile OPM range in the market, from as low as 1800 OPM to 6800 OPM. I have seen a lot of posts regarding the use of speed 3 to 5. I recall I seen a post where someone use speed 6 and the velco on the pad get destroyed so speed 6 kind of "prohibited" from using. But does the speed 1 has any practical use to you before?
I have never seen a post where the user use speed 1 to achieve something. I am curious to find out the practical use of this speed setting. Otherwise the existence of this speed setting to me will just be a marketing strategy with little to zero practical functionality. Nevertheless before I jump into that conclusion I think I better ask here first. So please enlighten me.
It is extremely rare that anyone uses speed setting one on a DA buffer, whether ours or our competitors. Mostly that is due to it being very easy to bog down the tool at this speed, and also because you need some level of rotation in order to do anything with a buffer - from high speed rotation for serious defect removal to low speeds for spreading wax. So why even have such a low speed setting? For much the same reason we have a "soft start" on the tool in general; it's actually much less stressful on a tool to start it at a slower speed and then turn up the power. It's asking a bit much to tell folks to always turn on their tool at the slowest speed setting and then turn it up from there, but in reality this is the least stressful way for any electric power tool to be started. Also, while theoretically possible to have a speed setting of zero that would indeed spin the pad at close to zero rpm (or OPM as the case may be with a DA), there is no practical reason for such a setting to exist.

As for speed setting 6, that's a whole different story. Because of the motion a DA creates there is a lot of stress on the hook & loop attachment system, and the more you stress this the hotter it will get. This mechanical coupling is often overlooked and people use the wrong backing plate with their pads. This is especially true when using an aggressive system like our DA Microfiber System where greater pressure is used than with traditional foam pads. But many people read too much into that and they use an extreme amount of pressure, and they run the tool at speed 6. This can be very detrimental to the hook & loop material, especially if the two components are mismatched. Yes, the hook & loop are engineered to work in harmony, and the most common error we see is people using a standard long hook backing plate with our microfiber pads instead of the proper backing plate that we recommend. This takes an already harsh environment and makes it worse. Now add more speed than we recommend, and more pressure, and you quite literally melt the hook & loop material, fusing them together. Or you can cause the pad to delaminate. In extreme conditions, you can even cause the backing plate itself to come apart. So, while we caution against prolonged use of speed 6 on a DA, that does not mean you can never use that speed setting.

(7) My survey indicates that most DA runs at almost the same speed range, usually from 2500 OPM to 6500 OPM (Meguiar's has 1800 OPM). However the power rating is a lot different. Some is rated 850W or above, but yet the maximum speed is still 6500 OPM. Why the high power rating when the machine only can run at the same maximum speed? It costs more to pay for the electricity so there got to be something else to gain otherwise it make no sense to get a higher power rating machine.
You've hit on an excellent point, and one that is often misunderstood. Judging any electric tool simply by it's power rating, in watts, is not an indication of how powerful that tool really is. Generally, when stating a watt rating of a tool it's more an indicator of what that tool is drawing, not necessarily what it's putting out. Electric motors come in varying degrees of efficiency, just like anything else. A less efficient 800 watt motor is not necessarily going to give you a more powerful tool than one with a 600 watt rating even though it would be fully 1/3 more powerful. It simply is not (at least there's no guarantee that it is, anyway!). Here in the US a common competitor to our G110v2 is the Griot's Garage GG6. They rate their tool at 800W which, you might think, would make it far more powerful than ours. In practical use, however, it is not. It's louder and it vibrates a bit more (usually not enough to be a problem, admittedly) but it is most definitely not more capable of correcting defects than our tool is. Looking at two other, quite different tools, we see an even more glaring example: the Flex 3401 which is rated as 900W input/590W output and is a direct drive, forced rotation tool; the Rupes LHR21ES which is rated at 500W and has to push the pad through a 21mm stroke under traditional DA movement. The Flex is essentially a rotary buffer with a built in wobble, while the Rupes is a DA with an enormous throw. But the Rupes uses a very, very efficient motor to push that long stroke, and even with just a "little" 500W motor is a defect slaying beast. It is an incredibly potent tool (we hesitate to say "powerful" in this context as it's watt rating is actually rather....... common. Bottom line: there is much more to look at than just watt rating on a tool: balance, vibration, weight, total output, ability to maintain pad spin under load, even ergonomics. Lastly, don't even bother looking at a tool with regard to "no load" behavior. "No load" being when you switch the tool on with no pad mounted to it, just holding it in the air with the power turned on. This basically tells you nothing about the real world use of the tool other than maybe the sound of the motor.

The reason I ask so much is because I am getting ready to go into the domain of machine polishing and over here there are not much DA choice available. Two most easily available options are the Meguiar's G220V2, another is the Ultramate 880W DA polisher (an almost identical model to the more popular Kestrel Das-6 Pro sold in the UK).

Over here the G220V2 is sold in a kit set (link here) and cost about US dollar 500. The Ultramate also sold in a kit set (link here) and cost about US dollar 265 (all after Google currency conversion). Meguiar's one year warranty if I recall correctly, Ultramate 6 months. So one is twice the price tag of the other. Hence I really need to understand the machine as much as I can before I pull the trigger. So please bear with me if my detail questions annoy you. Ultramate has a lot more power rating but no cruise control, and higher speed 1 setting OPM (2500 OPM) compare to Meguiar's 1800 OPM on speed 1. Both have about the same maximum OPM speed. Ultramate is heavier I believe.

**scoutfai** · Jan 27, 2014, 04:37 PM

Re: G110V2 or G220V2 - Questions on Cruise Control and other feature

Originally posted by Detail Werks View Post

I would HIGHLY recommend looking into the Rupes line. You will find an abundance of information as well as the ability to purchase them at www.buffdaddy.com.

Hi there.
I have considered that before, especially the LHR15ES (I guess it is discontinued). But the following factors kind of pull me away:
(i) Price. It costs about USD 570 (after currency conversion) to get one here from the regional distributor. That's just the machine alone with maybe 1 or 2 RUPES foam pad.
(ii) Backing plate. It is only fit proprietary backing plate from RUPES. I have seen common DA (like PC7424XP) able to use after market backing plate (3" up to 6"), even tire brush and carpet brush, all these options will not be available or use-able by RUPES user. If one has multiple DA I think this is not a concern but if one only has or plan to has one DA, kind of like a constraint to me.
(iii) After sales service. Any problem with the machine or any replacement part, I will have to specially order from oversea (or send to there), most likely from US or Italy RUPES directly. The shipment fee usually is at least half the price of the item itself, government tax haven included. It might be affordable to own the machine (even that I have doubt) but might not be so affordable to maintain it.

I have no doubt the RUPES bigfoot are great machine. But over here the detailing community is very small, it is hard enough to get quality detailing products, even harder to get detailing machine. I am not saying it is impossible but usually that involves a lot of import, shipment fee and government import tax. I am from Malaysia by the way. It will be considered lucky to me if the item or service I am looking for is available in Singapore, cause that will be the most affordable oversea purchase option.

There is Meguiar's distributor here, and they are kind of established already, so I am feeling convenience to maintain the Meguiar's machine if something wrong happens. If I live some where else I might have a different view. I definitely wish there are more variety of detailing products and machines sold here. I was having a long list of interested machine, and then very soon I cross out most of them due to impracticability to purchase and to maintain them.

**scoutfai** · Jan 29, 2014, 06:23 PM

Re: G110V2 or G220V2 - Questions on Cruise Control and other feature

Originally posted by Michael Stoops View Post

You're asking a lot of really good questions so we'll try to answer them in turn. See our comments in red for each of your questions.

Thanks a lot for the prompt reply! Useful explanation. Help me clear up my puzzles a lot.

Think about the cruise control in your car: you set it at speed 50 (50mph or kph) and the car maintains that speed on a flat road.

Now I understand why Meguiar's choose to use the term "cruise control" for this feature. Indeed reflects its property very well.

For the reasons noted above, your assumption is incorrect. Obviously the circuitry is not going to be able to run the tool at a higher speed than the speed controller allows, it just helps to overcome the drag created by the pressure.

I see, so at speed setting 6 on the dial, the cruise control still functioning, but the machine can never run above 6800 OPM.

It's all based on current flow, and that's as specific as we're willing to get.

That is good enough for me. Knowing that it senses the current flow, then I knew the cruise control feature will not easily break down by usage. That's my purpose of asking this question. Imagine if it was using a tachometer sensor then it will much easier to suffer damage.

The speed dial is infinitely variable between 1 and 6 and there are no detents at the numbered speed settings.

Hence to get the machine start spinning, the lowest setting must be 1, and there is no speed can be selected between 0 and 1. Correct?

So why even have such a low speed setting? For much the same reason we have a "soft start" on the tool in general; it's actually much less stressful on a tool to start it at a slower speed and then turn up the power. It's asking a bit much to tell folks to always turn on their tool at the slowest speed setting and then turn it up from there, but in reality this is the least stressful way for any electric power tool to be started. Also, while theoretically possible to have a speed setting of zero that would indeed spin the pad at close to zero rpm (or OPM as the case may be with a DA), there is no practical reason for such a setting to exist.

Will you agree if I say the speed 1 functions are:
1) Spreading product over the working area on the panel.
2) Starting the spin of the machine and slowly increase to the speed setting on the dial the user intended. Of course this practice will be reserved for anyone who put emphasize on power tool lifespan care and willing to give the extra effort of turning the dial.

As for speed setting 6, that's a whole different story. Because of the motion a DA creates there is a lot of stress on the hook & loop attachment system, and the more you stress this the hotter it will get. This mechanical coupling is often overlooked and people use the wrong backing plate with their pads. This is especially true when using an aggressive system like our DA Microfiber System where greater pressure is used than with traditional foam pads. But many people read too much into that and they use an extreme amount of pressure, and they run the tool at speed 6. This can be very detrimental to the hook & loop material, especially if the two components are mismatched. Yes, the hook & loop are engineered to work in harmony, and the most common error we see is people using a standard long hook backing plate with our microfiber pads instead of the proper backing plate that we recommend. This takes an already harsh environment and makes it worse. Now add more speed than we recommend, and more pressure, and you quite literally melt the hook & loop material, fusing them together. Or you can cause the pad to delaminate. In extreme conditions, you can even cause the backing plate itself to come apart. So, while we caution against prolonged use of speed 6 on a DA, that does not mean you can never use that speed setting.

You shed some light on this to me. Thanks for the explanation. Now this is something rarely brought out by anyone who discuss about the use of highest speed setting on any DA.
Great to know that speed 6 is not just a "decoration" on the machine a really useable for practical purpose, just need to be caution on the correct choice of hook and loop between backing plate and pad.

You've hit on an excellent point, and one that is often misunderstood. Judging any electric tool simply by it's power rating, in watts, is not an indication of how powerful that tool really is. Generally, when stating a watt rating of a tool it's more an indicator of what that tool is drawing, not necessarily what it's putting out. Electric motors come in varying degrees of efficiency, just like anything else. A less efficient 800 watt motor is not necessarily going to give you a more powerful tool than one with a 600 watt rating even though it would be fully 1/3 more powerful. It simply is not (at least there's no guarantee that it is, anyway!). Here in the US a common competitor to our G110v2 is the Griot's Garage GG6. They rate their tool at 800W which, you might think, would make it far more powerful than ours. In practical use, however, it is not. It's louder and it vibrates a bit more (usually not enough to be a problem, admittedly) but it is most definitely not more capable of correcting defects than our tool is. Looking at two other, quite different tools, we see an even more glaring example: the Flex 3401 which is rated as 900W input/590W output and is a direct drive, forced rotation tool; the Rupes LHR21ES which is rated at 500W and has to push the pad through a 21mm stroke under traditional DA movement. The Flex is essentially a rotary buffer with a built in wobble, while the Rupes is a DA with an enormous throw. But the Rupes uses a very, very efficient motor to push that long stroke, and even with just a "little" 500W motor is a defect slaying beast. It is an incredibly potent tool (we hesitate to say "powerful" in this context as it's watt rating is actually rather....... common. Bottom line: there is much more to look at than just watt rating on a tool: balance, vibration, weight, total output, ability to maintain pad spin under load, even ergonomics. Lastly, don't even bother looking at a tool with regard to "no load" behavior. "No load" being when you switch the tool on with no pad mounted to it, just holding it in the air with the power turned on. This basically tells you nothing about the real world use of the tool other than maybe the sound of the motor.

Appreciate the honesty and objective comment. I too never look at just power rating and take it for granted as the power output I am getting from it.

Just two more questions:
1) It has been some years since the G110v2 (or G220v2) released into the market. Is there a v3 version coming out soon?
2) G220v2, the unit sold here at the place I live, does it has identical speed setting with the G110v2 or it will get faster at each setting due to the higher voltage?

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G110V2 or G220V2 - Questions on Cruise Control and other feature

G110V2 or G220V2 - Questions on Cruise Control and other feature

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