Problems claying an old car

[prr]

I just got back from waxing my 98 Civic with Meguiar's cleaner wax. The parts of the paint that are still in decent condition do look very clean and shiny now.

But I discovered a problem. Before I waxed, I washed and then used a clay bar. What I saw that I did (on at least a part of the car, I didn't notice this anywhere else but on one three square foot area) was irritate the paint. I saw some scratches (a good square inch or two) that I know weren't there before; I also saw an area a bit bigger, that had a lot of scratch marks around the grey paint, which was itself very rough (making me wonder if the clear coat had been rubbed off). This second area might have had scratches before, but nothing as big or noticeable as it is now.

Now the clear coat is peeling off all over the car--I surely can't blame that on claying. But is it possible that (1) I didn't do it right (I did watch the video on the 5-part thread, on claying), or (2) this car's paint job is so bad, that I shouldn't even bother, b/c it has so many contaminants that the bar will pick them up and then rub them into the paint?

I'm pretty sure the damage occured in the claying stage. I didn't notice it until after claying; it is the roof right over the driver's head and very easy for me to see.

Any suggestions? Like I said, this car's paint job is shot anyways--I clayed simply to fend off as much further deterioration as I could. But my original plan was to clay my 05 Sienna minivan, which I've never clayed, and I'd like to make sure that I am doing it right, before I even think about claying that one. The minivan's paint job is actually pretty decent.

[thoryamaha919]

If your clear coat was failing on the civic then there isnt much to do about that except for a repaint. As for you minivan you can clay it. If you watched the how to video and did what they said then your doing it right. The only thing to make sure is that your keeping the bar wet. If its not wet enough to glide then you will mare the paint but you wont take the clear off unless there is a failure.

[Murr1525]

Any chance of a pic of the car/surfaces?

[prr]

Here's a cropped photo I just took:

http://paulrittman.com/1.jpg

http://paulrittman.com/2.jpg

The second photo has the two sections that I was talking about, circled.

I looked at teh hood, and there are quite a few scratches, although its highly possible that they could have been there before.

[Murr1525]

Hmm.. would be hard to say clay caused that, unless it was just short of failing, and a little pressure finished it off.

Unless there is really something bonded on the surface, like paint perhaps, really should just be sliding gently, just like you were drying the car or something.

[prr]

I believe I was applying the bar very gently; my concern here isn't necessarily with the bar itself, so much as any particles that I might have been dragging (under the bar) across the paint.

[Please Wash Me Detailing]

this is why I switched to the speedy prep towle. clay will scratch. once hard particals get in it you will scratch the paint. If I ever use clay again I only use a new piece and throw it away after.

[Michael Stoops]

OK, here's the image with the problem areas circled:



The spot on the left looks like the clear was literally rubbed right through. We often see this happen when someone gets overly aggressive with a paint cleaner while working by hand. They start vigorously scrubbing a tiny little area with their fingertip pressing through an applicator, and they abrade right through the clear. The mark on the right looks like very short stroke scratches in a couple of different directions.

OK, so what does that tell us? Well, first off it makes us wonder just how you used the clay bar, if indeed these marks were caused by the claying process. Honestly, we find it hard to believe that they were, unless you were doing something seriously wrong with the process. If you look at the process shown in our Quik Tips Video on claying you'll see we're using fairly long strokes when moving the clay. We're also using just enough pressure to keep from dropping the clay, no more. Let the clay do the work. If you pick up larger chunks of foreign material in the clay, like if you drop it, then any scratches that will occur will be as long as your stroke length. If your stroke length is as short as the scratches we see on the right, then it would appear that you're moving that clay bar in tiny little movements, which should only be seriously inefficient and time consuming when it doesn't have to be. But any typical contaminants the clay has removed from the surface should not be able to cause scratches that are this deep.

Clay is an abrasive, and in some cases it can cause some light marring if the paint is extremely delicate. Those are generally fairly rare instances. The new crop of clay alternatives are also abrasive, and some of them very much so. On the same delicate paint they also have the potential for marring. But this marring is almost never a series of deep scratches, unless something really large was picked up.

The mark on the left is either the beginning of clear coat failure due to some environmental exposure, or a plain and simple rub through due to overly aggressive rubbing of that one tiny spot. That would take some fairly serious effort with a clay bar, unless the paint was already on the verge of failure anyway. Both of these defects appear to be very isolated, and proper claying technique won't create such finely isolated defects, and certainly two such distinctly different appearing defects.

[prr]

I'm pretty sure my strokes were not just 2 inches or so across, so yeah I can see the point about the clay not causing the scratches. It was much more like the guy in that video. As far as the paint/clear coat is concerned, I don't believe that ALL of that was caused by claying, but I'm wondering if the stuff was peeling off and the clay just finished it off.

At any rate, I'll do the less visible parts of our minivan next, just to make sure that if I am doing it wrong, it won't be too visible. But there isn't any paint damage that would get made worse by rubbing any type of abrasive on it.