Ultimate compound and DA leaving swirls.....HELP!

[eddie jr]

Can the combination of UC and a DA with an orange LC (CCS) pad cuase swirls? This seems to have happened. It actually seemed really really great just after doing it looking with a close-up light in the garage and at all angles, but now several days later out in the sun there is significant swirling that definitely was not from before. The roof actually seems a lot better but there are two differences: I used a white pad and a less aggressive green (when no whites were clean) with the UC, and i also worked the product for a short time (no more than 1min to 1.5min). Most of the rest of the car was with the orange (the spoiler and one front fender with white when the orange ones were dirty) but the rest of the car has a lot of swirls. I was so frustrated with how short the work time appeared to be, when it began to haze, on the roof with the UC (and previously test spots of M80 and M83), that i figured i wasn't working it as long as you could.....so i stretched that out to over 2min for the rest of the car.

Questions:
1. Is the UC and orange pad a combination that will lead to this and HAS to be followed up with something else?

2. Could this be a factor of working the product too long, and if so, how are you supposed to know how long you can work it? I had watched the "How to use the PC" video and it seemed it was until it hazed (he used M80) which seemed to be multiple minutes. As mentioned above, all 3 products seemed to haze VERY quickly in no more than one minute. Is the working time of these products actually that short?

3. Do these polish/cleaner products actually hide swirls as well as remove them? Becuase the surface looked WAY better after polishing even under the garage light.......now you can EASILY see the swirls in the garage as well. The car was not done and i needed to take it somewhere, so i put Ultimate Quick wax on for some protection (the ultimate goal is a long lasting sealant). It was exposed to some light rain but now in most areas it is now hazy/cloudy and many more swirls evident almost as if the polish has washed off.

4. When you take off paint with these products, i always thought the underlying paint would have a nice gloss on it's own just like when it was new even when not enhanced with the polishing oils......of course only for a time until it oxidizes again, but for new paint that is quite a while. Why is it going hazy/cloudy as mentioned above so quickly (less than one week)? Once your paint is oxidized, are you then screwed and have to continually polish regularly for the life of the paint or when protected by a better product will it last potentially months? I definitely don't have it in me to do this every week! lol

I know i definitely need to tweek the process before i finish the remaining parts of the car and to go over the swirly parts again, so any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

thanks.

[wifpd4]

Please tell us a little about your car. Model, age, color, etc.?
Tell us about your process. How did wash, clay, what DA and speeds used?
Is this the first time it's had corrective work done on it?
Post some photographs, if available. Thanks.

[Marc08EX]

If your paint is soft, using Ultimate Compound with an orange pad could lead to micro-marring. These are tiny but more uniform swirl marks. Usually, you follow up this step with a finer polish and pad such as Ultimate Polish with a grey pad to clean up the micro-marring. http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...Delicate-Paint

You need to work the product while it's wet. If the product dries up and you continue to buff then it could cause the dry particles to scratch the finish.

[imz4n]

IMHO, this is a common issue. When starting off on your car that you have not used a D/A on or know what pad to use, you really need to do a test area ( a 2x2 area ) to see if your combination is going to give you the results you are looking for. I do the full process that I plan to do on this 2X2 area ( compound and polish ). I always start with the least aggressive product, pad, pressure and speed and work from there. All will create a different look. If you have done the car before, you will know better where to start. The paint differs so much between makes/models/years. You should get a good idea of what you plan to do before doing the whole car. My $0.02 worth. I think you will find that you have just created more work for yourself and have not destroyed the paint.

[eddie jr]

Please tell us a little about your car. Model, age, color, etc.?
Tell us about your process. How did wash, clay, what DA and speeds used?
Is this the first time it's had corrective work done on it?
Post some photographs, if available. Thanks.

Actually i had another thread that has pics from a while ago but for some reason i couldn't get anymore replies, so i started a new one. It is about 10yr old acrylic enamel, red (faded to orange). Only hand work previously, except a bit of machine buffing on the hood for scratches by a professional. I washed and claybarred first. I used the porter cable 7424 at speed 5.

You need to work the product while it's wet. If the product dries up and you continue to buff then it could cause the dry particles to scratch the finish.

Is it normal though for it to dry to a haze in less than a minute, or is that maybe because it was warmer out? I read a lot about amount of product to use and at first i was using too much (a ring around the pad) as you literally had to scrub it off after. Then, with a few pea sized spots it was so easy to remove, but it seems to haze so quickly. Is that the point where you stop working it?

IMHO, this is a common issue. When starting off on your car that you have not used a D/A on or know what pad to use, you really need to do a test area ( a 2x2 area ) to see if your combination is going to give you the results you are looking for.

Actually i did. I had heard UC can be followed by wax so i tried it and under the lighting in the garage it looked fabulous after about two applications (to get rid of the orange). FOr some reason the swirls never showed up much after doing it......however now in the same lighting you see tons of swirls???

[h_bomm]

If you're working on a single stage enamel then your paint is probably really dried out. Try going over a new test spot with some UP first as it has a lot of polishing oils in it to sort of revive your paint. If your satisfied with the result then good! If not, then try the UC again and you may need to go over it yet again with UP and finally your wax of choice. It sounds like a lot of work and maybe it is but at least you have a DA and aren't doing it all by hand! Hope this helps! Good Luck!

[Michael Stoops]

This is the red/orange 3rd gen Firebird, right?

UC really shouldn't be drying out in less than a minute, unless it's really hot an dry (thing Phoenix, AZ) which we doubt you're seeing in Canada. The size of your work area is critical here, it should be no larger than 2' x 2', if not a bit smaller. Pressure should be enough to compress the pad a bit, not not flatten it out completely, and it should continue to rotate, even if quite slowly.

We haven't seen any pix of the swirls you're talking about, but are they really swirls (cobwebs) or more of a hazy appearance? If just hazy it could be that either the pad or liquid is too aggressive for this paint. Try stepping down to a softer pad with the UC, keep the tool at speed 5, maintain the pressure and keep your work area small. Never go to a dry buff, but the product should thin out noticeably on the surface before removing it. You should be able to cover this area in overlapping side to side strokes, then go up and down, then repeat both directions and then wipe off the residue.

Even so, you may still need to follow with a finishing polish like Ultimate Polish or M205 on a finishing pad at a slower speed. Yes, sometimes you can go straight from UC to a wax, but that really depends on the paint (huge variable there!) and your technique.

[Dosto233]

This brings up an important question...

What are the appropriate ambient temperatures that UC can be used at?

I've also noticed that when its even a few degrees hotter than normal here in Southern California UC's work time becomes very short. I've noticed the exact same things as the OP, too hot and the product dries in under a minute and you literally need to scrub off the residue without the right number of passes achieved and if you use even a little bit too much product (even though it might not seem like too much) it often leads to micro-marring even with a white pad.

I don't know but can the chemists be questioned about appropriate product amounts and work times within a given temp range considering this seems to be an issue? These parameters seem pretty important with using UC and I've only used it 3 times so far.

[Michael Stoops]

As a general rule we suggest using our products in a temp range between 55F and 90F. That said, we've used many of our products, as have other people, at temps both below and above that range without problem. How you use a product has a lot to do with it, too. Overuse will create more dust than usual in high heat conditions, and low humidity will just compound that problem. We use UC all the time as our go to product in our Saturday Detailing 101 classes, and this past Saturday was the hottest day of the year so far, with temps reaching triple digits. We did our demo at about 1:00 to 2:00PM when it was plenty hot and had zero problems with it drying out and being difficult to remove.

Sometimes the condition of the paint itself will cause a product to dry out prematurely. We've seen cases of this with M105, and to a pretty extreme degree, even without ambient temps being anywhere near what you'd call "hot". You should be able to lay and "X" of UC on a polishing pad, then work an area a bit less than 2'x2' (we usually do about the size of a Supreme Shine Microfiber) and cover that area in 4 passes (two side to side, two up and down), at which point the product should be pretty thin on the surface, but still wet. Wipe off should then be pretty straightforward. This is exactly what we did this past Saturday.