Swirl Marks 101

[Car Potential]

Curious about swirl marks. It seems it is inevitable any car will get them. One thing I have noticed is after I wax my black chevy tahoe with quik wax (going to stop using and only use #26 once in a while), once in direct sunlight the swirl marks become more noticeable ( I think b/c when it is not shiny the dirt/dust covers them up). When I just wash the car with ultimate wash & wax the swirl marks do not show up (even though they are still there). Now that I am very detailed orientated regarding the paint on cars I have noticed different cars have different paint. For example my friend has a 2001 blue Hyundai accent (economical car) and the paint does not show swirl marks and I would guess b/c the paint is not as good quality as my tahoe and the paint seems to have super miniature dots instead of a clear mirror type finish (if that makes sense).

So my questions are:

1) Are swirl marks inevitable? (mostly I only notice them in direct sunlight after a car has been detailed)
2) Do different car companies paint jobs differ (greatly)?
3) What causes swirl marks?
4) Would you agree that a nicer quality paint/paint job is more prone to show swirl marks? (paint jobs that reflect more of a mirror compared to paint that has no mirror/reflection qualities)
5) How does the color of the car affect whether swirl marks are noticeable? (black seems to be the most noticeable)?
6) Related to the last question: Just b/c you don't always see swirl marks doesn't mean they aren't there, right?

[Marc08EX]

Re: Swirl Marks 101

1) Are swirl marks inevitable? (mostly I only notice them in direct sunlight after a car has been detailed)

IMO, yes inflicting swirl marks into your paint is inevitable because you're making contact with paint. The only factor you can control is the rate at which you inflict swirl marks into your paint

2) Do different car companies paint jobs differ (greatly)?

Yes. The clear coat's hardness varies between car and paint companies. Honda uses very soft paint which gets swirled and marred very easily. Mercedes Benz uses "cerami-clear" clear coat which makes swirl mark infliction hard and at the same time, polishing hard too.

3) What causes swirl marks?

Swirl marks are caused by contamination. The main source of swirl marks is when you're washing your car. If you don't use the two bucket method and the grit guard inserts, you're pretty much rubbing dirt all over the paint especially as you pick up dirt/contamination from the lower parts of the vehicle. The main reason why we use the two bucket method and the grit guard inserts is to keep the dirt away the wash mitt as we wash each panel. Another possible source of swirl marks is using a dirty or contaminated foam pad during polishing. If there's something foreign lodged into your foam pad that has some hardness to it, you'll cause some swirl marks or damage as that makes contact with your paint and you put pressure on your polisher. The bottom line is that you should work clean and keep anything that touches your paint as clean as possible.

4) Would you agree that a nicer quality paint/paint job is more prone to show swirl marks? (paint jobs that reflect more of a mirror compared to paint that has no mirror/reflection qualities)

I wouldn't say that. I would say that softer paints will be more prone to swirl marks.

5) How does the color of the car affect whether swirl marks are noticeable? (black seems to be the most noticeable)?

I think that darker colors contrast the visual effects of swirl marks more than lighter colored cars. IMO, swirl marks bounce off light the same way a prism does. The color of light is light (if that makes any sense) so it will blend in light colored paint jobs more as opposed to a dark colored paint job where it would stand out more because of contrast.

6) Related to the last question: Just b/c you don't always see swirl marks doesn't mean they aren't there, right?

Of course not. You have to look for swirl marks in a light colored car especially if you're outdoors and the sun is blasting on you. However, it's easy to hunt swirl marks when it's dark outside (or in a dark garage) with the proper lighting.


*** All these answers are my opinions only. Anybody thinks I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me.

[BillE]

Re: Swirl Marks 101

Can't argue with that at all...Good answers!

Bill

Good job Marc!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Swirl Marks 101

1) Are swirl marks inevitable? (mostly I only notice them in direct sunlight after a car has been detailed)

Yes, they are. Eventually, over time, no matter how careful you are, you're going to get them.

2) Do different car companies paint jobs differ (greatly)?

Not only do paints vary from one manufacturer to another, but even among different models from the same make. For example, BMW builds vehicles in different facilities in different countries. The environmental regulations in those countries differ, so the paint systems will vary to comply with those different regulations. Some of those paints are very difficult to remove swirls from, while others are very easy to clean up. But all of them can have swirls introduced to them pretty quickly if you're using poor technique during maintenance processes.

3) What causes swirl marks?

A swirl mark is nothing more than a scratch in the paint, albeit a very, very fine one. They can come about from the rotating brushes in an automatic car wash, from a dirty wash mitt at home, or from wiping with an old terry cloth towel. You'll get them if you dry wipe a car to remove dust rather than using a bit of quick detail spray to add some lubricity to the surface first. The vast majority of swirl marks are created during the washing and drying process as this is when the paint is being touched the most - wash mitts pulling dirt off the surface, towels wiping across the paint to dry it, etc. It is critical to use high quality materials throughout this process, and to always keep them clean. We're often amazed at how many people don't bother to wash and dry their wash mitts and drying towels.

4) Would you agree that a nicer quality paint/paint job is more prone to show swirl marks? (paint jobs that reflect more of a mirror compared to paint that has no mirror/reflection qualities)

No, not at all. We've seen extremely high quality paint jobs with zero swirls, and high quality paint jobs loaded with them. Same goes for lesser quality paint jobs.

5) How does the color of the car affect whether swirl marks are noticeable? (black seems to be the most noticeable)?

Color is a huge determining factor in revealing the presence of swirl marks. On a modern base coat/clear coat paint system the swirls and other defects are in the clear coat. Since swirls are just extremely fine scratches, and the edges of those fine scratches are very sharp, and they're in the clear coat (essentially just clear paint) they act almost like a little prism, bouncing bright white light back up into your eyes. When the base color coat is dark the contrast between this bright light and the dark underlying color is very high so the swirls practically jump out at you. Park that dark car in the shade so there is no direct light shining on it and you lose that bounce back and the swirls can't be seen. Now, put those exact same swirls into a silver car and what happens? The underlying color coat is pretty bright to begin with, plus it now has all these metal flakes in it that reflect light by design. So you've still got bright white light bouncing off the sharp edges of the swirl mark, but the contrast is very low and the metal flakes create a lot of visual "noise" so the swirls just aren't as visible. Along these same lines, we often find that swirls themselves are hiding what's known as RIDS - random, isolated, deeper scratches - that can't be seen until all the swirls are removed. These marks are deeper and tend to be straight line scratches but you can't see them because of all the visual "noise" created by the swirls. So, the darker the color and the less metallic particles present, the more noticeable the swirls will be. Meaning non-metallic black, in direct sunlight, will reveal everything.

The image below is a cross section of a typical paint film build on a body panel, showing swirl marks (fine scratches) in the clear coat.



Below, on the left, is a severe case of swirls caused by either an automatic car wash, poor washing technique at home, or some combination of the two. On the right are buffer swirls, often called holograms, that are caused by sloppy use of a rotary buffer. Both are created in different ways, but both are just very fine little scratches in the paint running all directions.

6) Related to the last question: Just b/c you don't always see swirl marks doesn't mean they aren't there, right?

Very true. As mentioned above, park a swirled up black car in the shade and it looks a whole lot better than it did sitting in the sun. Or put too bright a light onto a silver car that's loaded with swirls and the amount of light bouncing back at you is so intense it's almost blinding, and you lose the swirls in the intensity.

We'd like to address a couple of earlier observations of yours, too:

One thing I have noticed is after I wax my black chevy tahoe with quik wax (going to stop using and only use #26 once in a while), once in direct sunlight the swirl marks become more noticeable ( I think b/c when it is not shiny the dirt/dust covers them up). When I just wash the car with ultimate wash & wax the swirl marks do not show up (even though they are still there).

You should not be seeing any swirls just after waxing a car, whether with a spray wax, liquid wax or paste wax. If anything, virtually all waxes will hide fine swirls to some degree. Since you're seeing them after applying a spray wax but they seem to be gone after washing, we're wondering if what you're seeing are residue marks left from either improper wipe off, excess product use, or a combination of the two. If your swirls have been properly removed, the simply process of applying a spray wax should not create new marks to any noticeable level. Unless........ your car has extremely delicate paint. But you don't see these marks after washing, so we're inclined to think you're not seeing actually marring in the paint. A regular visitor to our Thursday Night Open Garage sessions has a 2011 Toyota Prius in non metallic black, and the paint on that car is just insanely delicate. It is super easy to mar this paint, but also easy to remove the marring as long as you don't get overly aggressive when doing so. But swirl marks won't come and go simply by waxing and washing.

Now that I am very detailed orientated regarding the paint on cars I have noticed different cars have different paint. For example my friend has a 2001 blue Hyundai accent (economical car) and the paint does not show swirl marks and I would guess b/c the paint is not as good quality as my tahoe and the paint seems to have super miniature dots instead of a clear mirror type finish (if that makes sense).

Again, price point of the vehicle isn't necessarily the determining factor in whether or not a car has "good quality" paint or not. Certainly on very expensive vehicles the paint finish is often of a higher quality than on less expensive cars, but that's often down to the extra time taken with the finish due to the expectations of that market segment. But we've seen $400,000 luxury cars sitting in dealer showrooms that were full of swirls, and we've seen $14,000 econboxes with gorgeous paint. The tiny little dots you're seeing in your friend's 10 year old Hyundai are likely just pits in the paint, caused by impact from very fine particulates while it's rolling down the road. We see that on almost everything, and a lot has to do with how many miles are on the car, where it's driven, and the shape of the front of the vehicle (does the shape allow for fine objects to impact a sloping hood, or it a more upright vehicle, etc). Similarly, we see some cars where the front end gets an annoying amount of fine rock chips, often right down to the primer, while others are much more resistant to this. But even that isn't an overall indicator of a "good" versus "bad" paint job. The physics of chipping paint is very different from that of scratching the paint, which is different still from polishing and leveling that paint back down in order to remove the swirls. As an example, the C6 Corvette is notorious for having very hard paint, meaning it is very difficult to remove swirl marks from this paint. But it's still very easy to put swirl marks into the paint. That Prius, on the other hand, is easy to scratch to but also very easy to correct. And when it's properly corrected, the paint looks fantastic on that car.

[juliom2]

Re: Swirl Marks 101

Awesome threat...........!!!
Good questions....Great answers....!!!!
I can see the concern with that huge black suv....
Adopt the 5 step maintenance and comply with patience.
:

[Marc08EX]

Re: Swirl Marks 101

Great response Mr. Stoops!!! Thanks for taking time to answer the questions!

[ethereal45]

Re: Swirl Marks 101

Great post Mike, I always learn something whenever I read your posts.

[STRIFE]

Re: Swirl Marks 101

Lotsa great info here....I like my white cars.....I have to try sooooooooooooo hard to find a swirl.....and I have 2 bottles of SwirlX....what a tough life I have

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Swirl Marks 101

Lotsa great info here....I like my white cars.....I have to try sooooooooooooo hard to find a swirl.....and I have 2 bottles of SwirlX....what a tough life I have

That just tells us that you're actually doing a very good job of maintaining your white car. Silver is the best at hiding swirls, and they will show up very noticeably on white if you're not doing a good job with your maintenance routine. Take a look at this thread for a white car with swirls that you don't have to look for very hard in order to see them.