Synthetic Polymer/Sealant vs. Wax

[05PhillyStang]

I've heard many people say that it's better to use synthetic products as opposed to wax (especially for a daily driver) because of it's durability. I mentioned in another thread that I'm currently using Meg's 3-step process. I'll probably replace the carnuba with the new NXT. I'm wondering if I should re-consider this and go with something like #20 or 21.

Can anyone provide some insight? Pros and cons of each?

Thanks

[gb387]

Re: Synthetic Polymer/Sealant vs. Wax

Originally posted by 05PhillyStang
I've heard many people say that it's better to use synthetic products as opposed to wax (especially for a daily driver) because of it's durability. I mentioned in another thread that I'm currently using Meg's 3-step process. I'll probably replace the carnuba with the new NXT. I'm wondering if I should re-consider this and go with something like #20 or 21.

Can anyone provide some insight? Pros and cons of each?

Thanks

I use to use DC #3 for my last step then moved to #26 and now on to NXT. I have found that the NXT look and protection seem to last much longer then the others I have used. I also feel the NXT looks better on my vehicle, just my opinion. I have yet to use #20, I plan on using my sample of #21 this weekend and I will post the results.

[TOGWT]

Re: Synthetic Polymer/Sealant vs. Wax

Originally posted by 05PhillyStang
I've heard many people say that it's better to use synthetic products as opposed to wax (especially for a daily driver) because of it's durability. I mentioned in another thread that I'm currently using Meg's 3-step process. I'll probably replace the carnuba with the new NXT. I'm wondering if I should re-consider this and go with something like #20 or 21.

Can anyone provide some insight? Pros and cons of each?

Thanks

Polymer and Carnauba wax differences:
The polymers and waxes used for detailing are semi-solid; they are actually a very concentrated solution in an organic solvent or aqueous emulsion

a) Polymer sealant- comprises an open linked molecule; these open linked polymer molecules join together to create an elongated mesh like effect that reflects light efficiently due to their inherent flat surface. Because they are usually very transparent they transmit the surface colour faithfully, but they have very little depth resulting in what is perceived as a very bright, flat silver glow. Initially polymers attach to the paint surface by surface tension, after they have cross-linked the polymers and paint molecules form a cationic bond.

b) Carnauba wax- molecules are closed linked, which means that they only butt up together to protect the surface. These wax molecules form an egg-grate type (with the long axis vertical) mesh over the smaller paint molecules of the paint film surface, which gives it an optical depth. Initially a Carnauba wax attaches itself by surface tension; during the curing process the carrier system (solvents / oils) attach themselves to the porous microscopic caps in the paint surface forming a physical anchor.

c) Melting points- Polymer melts at 350oF, Mineral oils 200oF, Carnauba Wax 180oF and evaporates / erodes over time (dependant upon ambient temperatures and climatic conditions) Bee’s wax is often mixed with Carnauba wax, which has an even lower melting point (130oF), which further limits its durability. In actual practice higher temperatures frequently leads to melting of the wax compounds.

d)For example, painted surfaces exposed to ambient temperatures of 85oF in direct sunlight, will obtain a temperature of 195 degrees or more

Note: Carnauba wax will bond to a cross-linked polymer, conversely if a polymer is applied on top of a Carnauba wax the cross-linking / bonding may be compromised. Although I would not state categorically that a product that is formulated with some oil in it will abort the cross linking or bonding process of a polymer, just that the process may not be as complete, and its strength and durability may be effected.
JonM

[Mike Phillips]

*bump*

Moved to Hot Topics

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Re: Synthetic Polymer/Sealant vs. Wax

Originally posted by TOGWT
Polymer and Carnauba wax differences:
The polymers and waxes used for detailing are semi-solid; they are actually a very concentrated solution in an organic solvent or aqueous emulsion

a) Polymer sealant- comprises an open linked molecule; these open linked polymer molecules join together to create an elongated mesh like effect that reflects light efficiently due to their inherent flat surface. Because they are usually very transparent they transmit the surface colour faithfully, but they have very little depth resulting in what is perceived as a very bright, flat silver glow. Initially polymers attach to the paint surface by surface tension, after they have cross-linked the polymers and paint molecules form a cationic bond.

b) Carnauba wax- molecules are closed linked, which means that they only butt up together to protect the surface. These wax molecules form an egg-grate type (with the long axis vertical) mesh over the smaller paint molecules of the paint film surface, which gives it an optical depth. Initially a Carnauba wax attaches itself by surface tension; during the curing process the carrier system (solvents / oils) attach themselves to the porous microscopic caps in the paint surface forming a physical anchor.

c) Melting points- Polymer melts at 350oF, Mineral oils 200oF, Carnauba Wax 180oF and evaporates / erodes over time (dependant upon ambient temperatures and climatic conditions) Bee’s wax is often mixed with Carnauba wax, which has an even lower melting point (130oF), which further limits its durability. In actual practice higher temperatures frequently leads to melting of the wax compounds.

d)For example, painted surfaces exposed to ambient temperatures of 85oF in direct sunlight, will obtain a temperature of 195 degrees or more

Note: Carnauba wax will bond to a cross-linked polymer, conversely if a polymer is applied on top of a Carnauba wax the cross-linking / bonding may be compromised. Although I would not state categorically that a product that is formulated with some oil in it will abort the cross linking or bonding process of a polymer, just that the process may not be as complete, and its strength and durability may be effected.
JonM

Jon,

Can you supply any data to back up any of the above statements you have written here on Meguiar's Online and on other forums as well?

Any data at all?

Any data that can scientifically back-up all those statements you have posted?

Any sources of information that all of our online members can research and read to validate those statements?

Is their a book, an article, or a website that proves any of the above?

Any hard data at all?


Note: Please post only your own words, or include any references to the rightful author of the words you post on Meguiar's Online.

Thank You!

[Mike Phillips]

*Bump*

[Mike Phillips]

*Bump*

[Rockpick]

What the heck...

*BUMP*

[RamAirV1]

Is cross linking the same as a cationic bond?

RamAirV1

[Mike Phillips]

We're waiting for TOGWT to reply...

(Unless you want to take a stab at his claims?)

[magnus]

Re: Re: Synthetic Polymer/Sealant vs. Wax

Originally posted by TOGWT
Polymer and Carnauba wax differences:
The polymers and waxes used for detailing are semi-solid; they are actually a very concentrated solution in an organic solvent or aqueous emulsion

a) Polymer sealant- comprises an open linked molecule; these open linked polymer molecules join together to create an elongated mesh like effect that reflects light efficiently due to their inherent flat surface. Because they are usually very transparent they transmit the surface colour faithfully, but they have very little depth resulting in what is perceived as a very bright, flat silver glow. Initially polymers attach to the paint surface by surface tension, after they have cross-linked the polymers and paint molecules form a cationic bond.

b) Carnauba wax- molecules are closed linked, which means that they only butt up together to protect the surface. These wax molecules form an egg-grate type (with the long axis vertical) mesh over the smaller paint molecules of the paint film surface, which gives it an optical depth. Initially a Carnauba wax attaches itself by surface tension; during the curing process the carrier system (solvents / oils) attach themselves to the porous microscopic caps in the paint surface forming a physical anchor.

c) Melting points- Polymer melts at 350oF, Mineral oils 200oF, Carnauba Wax 180oF and evaporates / erodes over time (dependant upon ambient temperatures and climatic conditions) Bee’s wax is often mixed with Carnauba wax, which has an even lower melting point (130oF), which further limits its durability. In actual practice higher temperatures frequently leads to melting of the wax compounds.

d)For example, painted surfaces exposed to ambient temperatures of 85oF in direct sunlight, will obtain a temperature of 195 degrees or more

Note: Carnauba wax will bond to a cross-linked polymer, conversely if a polymer is applied on top of a Carnauba wax the cross-linking / bonding may be compromised. Although I would not state categorically that a product that is formulated with some oil in it will abort the cross linking or bonding process of a polymer, just that the process may not be as complete, and its strength and durability may be effected.
JonM

A paraphrase of this paraphrase is posted here as well.

[Tim Lingor]

Re: Re: Re: Synthetic Polymer/Sealant vs. Wax

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Jon,

Can you supply any data to back up any of the above statements you have written here on Meguiar's Online and on other forums as well?

Any data at all?

Any data that can scientifically back-up all those statements you have posted?

Any sources of information that all of our online members can research and read to validate those statements?

Is their a book, an article, or a website that proves any of the above?

Any hard data at all?


Note: Please post only your own words, or include any references to the rightful author of the words you post on Meguiar's Online.

Thank You!

Mike, you took the words out of my mouth!

Tim

[Jimmy Buffit]

I'm rather interested

Jim

[Mike Phillips]

*Bump*

Originally posted by TOGWT
Polymer and Carnauba wax differences:
The polymers and waxes used for detailing are semi-solid; they are actually a very concentrated solution in an organic solvent or aqueous emulsion

a) Polymer sealant- comprises an open linked molecule; these open linked polymer molecules join together to create an elongated mesh like effect that reflects light efficiently due to their inherent flat surface. Because they are usually very transparent they transmit the surface colour faithfully, but they have very little depth resulting in what is perceived as a very bright, flat silver glow. Initially polymers attach to the paint surface by surface tension, after they have cross-linked the polymers and paint molecules form a cationic bond.

b) Carnauba wax- molecules are closed linked, which means that they only butt up together to protect the surface. These wax molecules form an egg-grate type (with the long axis vertical) mesh over the smaller paint molecules of the paint film surface, which gives it an optical depth. Initially a Carnauba wax attaches itself by surface tension; during the curing process the carrier system (solvents / oils) attach themselves to the porous microscopic caps in the paint surface forming a physical anchor.

c) Melting points- Polymer melts at 350oF, Mineral oils 200oF, Carnauba Wax 180oF and evaporates / erodes over time (dependant upon ambient temperatures and climatic conditions) Bee’s wax is often mixed with Carnauba wax, which has an even lower melting point (130oF), which further limits its durability. In actual practice higher temperatures frequently leads to melting of the wax compounds.

d)For example, painted surfaces exposed to ambient temperatures of 85oF in direct sunlight, will obtain a temperature of 195 degrees or more

Note: Carnauba wax will bond to a cross-linked polymer, conversely if a polymer is applied on top of a Carnauba wax the cross-linking / bonding may be compromised. Although I would not state categorically that a product that is formulated with some oil in it will abort the cross linking or bonding process of a polymer, just that the process may not be as complete, and its strength and durability may be effected.
JonM

Jon,

Can you supply any data to back up any of the above statements you have written here on Meguiar's Online and on other forums as well?

Any data at all?

Any data that can scientifically back-up all those statements you have posted?

Any sources of information that all of our online members can research and read to validate those statements?

Is their a book, an article, or a website that proves any of the above?

Any hard data at all?


Note: Please post only your own words, or include any references to the rightful author of the words you post on Meguiar's Online.

Thank You!

[Mike Phillips]

*Bump*