Meguiars DA Microfibre Correction System - My Testing Results

[Kickin Griffin]

It's been a while since I last posted here and I have been taking some time away from detailing to pursue my career as a secondary school teacher... but recently I have been testing the microfibre correction system from Meguiars so I thought my findings would make useful reading over here on Megs Online


Test 1

This is just a quick thread to give an initial flavour of the new Meguiars Microfibre DA correction system, which I will be testing over the coming weeks in a variety of different tests.

So - my first introduction to microfibre being used with a DA for correction was with the Chemical Guys microfibre pads and using V36/38 Optical polishes, the latter not being specifically designed for use with microfibre but despite this they worked very well... So this was to be the benchmark which I would measure the Meguiars against, as well as comparing to correction by foam and on the rotary (subjects of future threads).

One of the things that struck me when reading the bottles of the products (Correction Compound and Finishing Wax) was the short working time suggested, as I for one am a fan of long work times to ensure the product is fully worked... but this gave me an idea for the first part of the testing - if the work times are short, then this lends itself to ease of use on a sunny day where long work times are not always possible because the heat can dry out the product. So, to put this to the test, take one sunny afternoon (rare summer weather! :lol, and a red Astra with moderate defects and hazing.

The bonnet of the test car before...



Now, the Meguiars system comes with two different pads and products: a cutting microfibre and a finishing microfibre, and a cutting compound (Correction Compound) and finishing product (Finishing Wax) which combines refinement and the waxing stage... On this panel, I decided to start off with the Correction Compound on the cutting pad. The cutting pad has stiffer burgandy foam supporting the microfibre:



Applying the correction compound:



Priming the microfibre by massaging the compound into the microfibre pad...





Additional working compound added:



A lot of product is used at this stage, but then you only need a couple of beads to top up between sets in testing. Between sets it is also essentially just to use your fingers to ruffle the microfibre back up so it doesn't clog and lie flat.

Application was with the new G220 V2 (separate thread on my thoughts on this to follow), spreading the product over a 1' square area at speed 2 and then working the product on speed 5. Working was with firm pressure, between 10 and 15lbs, and with very slow hand movements (slower than typical for foam at less than 1" per second)... only six or seven passes were made over a two minute period with the product before switching the machine off. This seemed like a very short set, but the residue had gone clear at this stage and in the sunlight the finish appeared to be corrected and quite well refined... The results after a short set with the compound:





I was impressed as the short work time still gave significant correction and to my eyes very good finishing as well with no micromarring evident and a nice gloss with good clarity. Still the finishing stage to go. The abrasive style of the new Correction Compound seems to cut hard and break down quickly so it gets the correction quickly before breaking down to refine so you need less work time, which was handy in this direct sunlight! Longer work times will be experimented with in due course, but these are the results roughly following the instructions on the bottle

Anyways, with these results, it was time to refine the finish using the Finishing Wax on a finishing microfibre. The difference between the two microfibre pads is the supporting foam, and the finishing pad has got softer black foam supporting the microfibre:



Applying the Finishing Wax, the pad was primed as above:



Spread at speed 2, worked at speed 4 for a couple of minutes again - this time using lighter pressure (5 - 10lbs) but still slow hand movements. This product seemed to have a longer work time, but I stuck roughly to the short work times for this test and will look at longer work times in future tests. The residue buffed off with real ease, almost as easy as CG 50/50 wax and this was one thing that really appealed to me. The results...





The clarity seemed very good at this stage, though I reckon it can still be improved upon with longer sets with the Finishing Wax especially, so I will be experimenting with that in due course However, I was impressed with this initial set of results given the speed at which they were achieved in terms of work time. Some more finished shots... Only about one third of the bonnet completed so far:












Now, the Finishing Wax suggests that the job is done at this stage, so I will be testing the finish and durability offered by this product too - so a couple of water tests, showing how the product performs with water: driver's side of bonnet treated, passenger side just washed and clayed, and you can see a clear difference in the water sheeting, the Finishing Wax delviering decent sheeting ability though for me below what I would achieve using a dedicated wax such as Meguiars #16 (please excuse my dad who was pouring the water on the car who saw the cat that sits on and scratches his car bonnet and digs in the garden - I think he was seeking revenge with the watering can :lol::lol:





Of course, there is nothing to stop you applying a wax after the Finsihing wax to enhance the water beading and sheeting, and as a stand alone the Finishing wax does perform well in its own right.

So - first impressions are very positive so far, the speed and ease of use being big plus points and the results for me speaking for themselves even very early in the testing. This is just the start, so watch this space for further threads as the system is put through its paces

PS - just to point out, this car has been resprayed at the front so is not standard Vauxhall - it seems harder than your typical Vauxhall and also has a clearcoat now.

Further tests will be carried out on this car, as you can see it leads a hard life...





so it will be the perfect test for the new system

[Kickin Griffin]

Re: Meguiars DA Microfibre Correction System - My Testing Results

The new Meguiars microfibre DA correction system is getting more and more air time now as the system is being used by more people and the same messages seem to be coming out - speed of correction and the movement of the level of correction capable in given times by DA. So we thought it was about time to challenge the Meguiars system in a head to head with how we would have corrected by DA before it existed! To see what the differences really are

So - take one Mercedes blue bonnet, and marr it with a brush and some grit, and a key to set the challenge:











I think this sets the heavy correction challenge quite well - 2000 grit sanding marks, grit brush and deep RDS inflicted by a key, so a wide variety of severe marring to sort out.


Menzerna S100 Power Gloss on DRC1000 Yellow Cutting Pad

Traditionally, working by DA, heavy correction would be achieved using a cutting foam pad such as the DRC1000 Yellow, and an aggressive compound. Chosen here is Menzerna S100 Power Gloss, in our experience, Menzerna compounds seem to have the edge on a DA, the abrasives seem to suit the oscillating motion of the machine more than those of Fast Cut for example. The video below shows a typical correction set with Menzerna on foam, Gordon using speed 2 to spread and working up to speed 5 - 5.5 on the DAS-6 Pro and using moderate pressure to achieve the correction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xekJUpiE3K0

Note: fast passes at slow speed to spread and then slow hand movements with the machine while breaking the compound down and an overall work time of circa 5 minutes.

This achieved the following results, first of all viewed under the striplight and the camera focussed on the paint surface to give a true indication of the level of correction of the deeper marks and RDS (look for the X marks the spot ):









The Power Gloss seems to have dealt very well with the deep RDS, with little evidence of being there, however the paint still haze a hazy small peel effect to it, so the clarity is not great. Still to be refined of course. Under the Sun Gun:









The finish looks good in terms of correction, with very little of any of the defects left (yes, a DA can correct by foam ). A hazyness under the light is to be expected from the cutting compound and pad combo, and will be refined. This sets the bar very high for the new system, as this set does show just how capable a DA with cutting foam can be!


Meguiars Correction Compound on Meguiars DA Microfibre Cutting Pad

So, with the bar set high, the new microfibre cutting pad and cutting compound were used to challenge it. The video below shows a typical set, longer than recommended by Meguairs in terms of passes and at 3.5 minutes this was pretty much the longest sets we would go for on the basis of what the product was achieving and the lack of any benefits of working longer. We will be investigating the effects of water to revive the product and comparing the set times in a later test, but this is how it was performing most strongly for us so far so we used this for the test. Spread at speed 2, and then worked at speeds 4 - 5 on a G220 V2. Note in the video the very slow hand movements (slower than with the foam) and the heavier pressure being used with the microfibre pads which we saw giving benefits in terms of correction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDIbC_kfsqQ

The end results of this, assessed first of all using the strip lights:









Interestingly here, in terms of the RDS we saw less correction than with foam! You can see the X more clearly, but what we also saw was the hazy small peel effect was better removed by the microfibre as if the microfibre system is better at "re-levelling" the paint while actually removing a little less paint than an aggressive foam combination. The correction is not greater, but rather is is of a different style. Under the Sun Gun:









Correction here is excellent, most of the defects are removed and the only remaining were the deeper RDS. Again, this re-levelling shows as the finish seems to have greater clarity straight after this correction compound stage and the shorter sets would be a time saver.


Clarity Comparison

To investigate this idea a little further, we tried to show by photographs the differences in clarity we were seeing by eye between the Menzerna and Meguiars sides. First of all the Menzerna side:





and the Meguiars side:





Arugably, the clarity on the Megiuars side seems to be superior with a sharper and clearer reflection being given. The Meguiars compounds seem to product a slightly sharper finish by making the paint more level than the Menzerna and foam combo which removed more paint to remove the deeper marks more successfully. The correction style is different, both effective but for deeper marks, foam still seems to be in front but for clarity, general correction and saving time, Meguiars has got the edge.


Refining - Menzerna PO106FA on Hexlogic White Polishing Pad

You may wonder why we are not using Menzerna's finest polish (85RD/E) on a finishing pad here, but given the compound marring left it was decided to refine in two stages for a fair test to the microfibre system and to ensure compound marring is removed is is necessary to use the much more flexible 106FA on a polishing pad... Knowing that when used correctly, 106FA can finish down beautifully, we were happy to use this but are aware that the use of a polishing pad may be bettered with another set using a finishing pad (see end of test ).

So - following the refinement:





Looking a bit sharper. Allowing the camera to auto focus:



And with manual focus to focus on the paint surface for a true assessment of the levels of correction:





and under the Sun Gun to check marring removed, and again to assess clarity. If you are wondering what the strange mark at 8 o'clock in all images is, it is my arm :








Refinement - Meguiars Finishing Wax on Finishing Microfibre

Again, extending the set length beyond Meguiars' recommendation we found that the product refined a little better in terms of marring left, and so we worked the product for two to three minutes on speed 4 on a G220 V2 with light to moderate pressure, finishing with light pressure. This achieved the following results for clarity of reflection:





Allowing the camera to auto focus:



Focussing on the paint surface:





And under the Sun Gun:







The thing here is there seemed to be less of an improvement using the Finishing wax than there was with 106FA - the Menzerna and foam needed the additional stage whereas the Meguiars system seemed to benefit only very little from this additional finishing stage... the overall clarity of the Meguiars seems a little greater, and looking in detail at the above pictures we believe this is because of the levelling effect the compound has to achieve the clearer reflections.



Final Foam Refinement: 85RD on DRC1000 Finishing Foam

Just to give the foam combo every opportunity to refine at its best, we then used a finishing pad (DRC1000 black) and Menzerna PO85RD Final Finish... initially we used the DAS-6 Pro for this but as this video illustrates we had pad bogging issues (foam pad too soft and large for a DA to use comfortably):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0stYMaTK_0M

So, the Cruise Control feature of the G220 V2 was brought into play to allow the test to be completed with this pad, as it kept the pad rotations...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Psw3HlMJIU4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0ZLGS1IyqU

The results of this final refinement:







Arguably a slight improvement in clarity again and coming closer to the Meguiars side.


Finish Comparisons & Conclusion

Below, we show comparisons of the finish, first of all side by side, with Menzerna on the left and Meguiars on the right of the uncorrected line:



Menzerna side after:





Meguiars side after:





On the test, it seemed that the Meguiars side had the greater clarity and slightly sharper reflections which seemed to be down to the first stage of the process where the Correction Compound did a superior job of levelling the surface despite not fully removing the RDS - the correction style seems very different and this has advantages in terms of the clarity but disadvantages in terms of outright correction. Perhaps, it would be fair to say that both systems have their place rather than one taking over from the other. Meguiars certainly have introduced a new and exciting range here and the combo of pads and polishes/compounds is impressive and produces very good results, and when time and clarity are considered as well as correction you see the big plus points for the products. More testing to come, but so far, Meguiars' new DA Microfibre system is impressing :thumb:

Finally, some water bead shots showing the beads growing in size with more water added until the bead finally breaks free. Results from the finishing wax:

[Kickin Griffin]

Re: Meguiars DA Microfibre Correction System - My Testing Results

Test 3

Along with others, we have been testing the new Meguiars Microfibre DA correction system for a little while now, putting it through its paces against a variety of different correction and finishing systems... There is much talk about the speed of correction it offers and while it does cut quickly, my personal experience of the system is that this is not the ace that it holds up its sleeve. Rather, the product's trump card is the way it corrects the paintwork, as it seems to give a levelling effect that results in greater clarity than using a foam pad on either rotary or DA as it gives a "flatter" finish - this enhancement in clarity is akin to wet sanding in terms of looks, approaching a mirror like shine and this has been the biggest thing to impress me about the system.

To give you an idea of what I mean, I've put together a couple of videos and some pictures in this thread. Starting off with the test panel, you can see a cloudy haze finish as well as deeper marks and general swirls:











In order to show a true representation of the defects on the finish and the hazyness, I have use manual focus to focus on the paint surface.

Taking you through the test, I have decided to do this by videos, so the first part of the test is checking the paint thickness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIW1xKBFAsA

Then assessing the paint condition before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQQcIQIUjM

Meguiars DA Microfibre Correction Compound was used here on a Cutting pad. This time, water was used to regenerate to polish to extend the work time which has had a small benefit to the leveling effect but as the afters will show, has not really increased the level of correction of deeper marks (thought Gordon has been working on a technique which does allow the system to correct deeper marks ). The set used:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7qtSoxOMV0

Firm pressure was used throughout the correction stage of the set, and the key as shown in the video is very slow hand movements over the area.

The paint finish was then assessed again in this video, note the increase in gloss and clarity and the sharpness of the skylight reflection which has come through leveling the paint surface:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTWtC0ii6dk

Using manual focus to focus on the surface of the paint (which gives a true representation of what has been achieved, and you can tell it is focussed on the surface as you see the bigger chips in clear focus ). Not all OP has been removed but it has certainly been reduced to give this finish. Note however that the deeper marks still remain, as this photographs below also show:



















A well refined finish as well, just from this cutting correction stage. Assessing the paint thickness after:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMccDxMpE30

On this finish, which is medium on this bonnet (the car was a patchwork quilt of paints!!), around 4um of paint has been removed so the correction system is not removing large amounts of paint which would explain why deeper RDS are not removed but are softened. The system seem to correct by leveling more than foam does, but removes less paint.


Thus far, this suggests to me that a cutting compound could be used by rotary for removal of RDS (spot correction), and then the DA system used for the finish enhancement stage to increase the gloss and clarity as shown above... Putting this to the test, we have a deeper mark here that was reduced with two sets of 3M Fast Cut on a rotary polisher (note the holograms left by the cutting compound, used on a cutting pad to defect removal):









Then, following a set similar to the video (no. 3) above with the Meguiars Correction Compound on a Cutting Microfibre and we see the following results, focussed on the paint surface:











Again, there has been an improvement to the gloss and clarity which appears to be coming from the reduction in the "peel" of the paint, it looks more level which contributes to the clarity of the reflections seen.

More work is to be carried out trialling the finishing wax, but currently I favour refining by rotary using something like Meguiars #205 on a 3M blue finishing pad. The Finishing Wax does work well, but for me, #205 has an edge on a finishing pad for clarity during refinement but we've got more testing of the finishing wax to go ... However, following the refinement by #205, this is what we see:





















In summary then, so far this system has shown itself to offer something new to the machine polishing market in terms of the finish that it can produce compared to foam... the leveling effect is similar to using a wool pad by rotary but without the higher paint losses. In terms of a paint correction detail, it definitely offers something tenable to the point where I may be tempted to argue that it is becoming a key part of the detail: deeper marks corrected by rotary and compounds, paint finish enhanced and general correction by DA to get this "level" finish and then refine with a finishing polish. This trio would be very tempting for me on a detail! More to follow on getting the Correction system to remove deeper marks following Gordon's findings and getting more from the Finishing Wax

[Kickin Griffin]

Re: Meguiars DA Microfibre Correction System - My Testing Results

Test 4

Just a quick thread of a couple of pics here and there I got while I was playing around with the Meguiars DA correction system on a friend's Volvo S40.. the car is mid grey, and I have been using the correction system for the removal of general swirls and also for benefiting from the "leveling" effect to enhance the the reflections from the paint...

The bonnet before, looks pretty clean but there is a hazy milkyness to the finish from the orange peel, this is the standard paint finish on the car as it has not been resprayed...







Following just the Correction Compound (D300) on a Cutting Microfibre Pad, applied by G220 V2 at speeds 4 and 5 for working with a spritz of water mid way through the set to lengthen the work time (circa 5 - 6 minutes per 18" section), the enhancement to the gloss and improvement to the reflection can be clearly seen:





Not a bad reflection shot for grey at this stage



And the finish stood up well under the Sun Gun as well...







The finish was then refined, by DA, using Menzerna PO85RD Final Finish on a Meguiars Soft Buff 2.0 Black finishing pad, relying on the G220 V2 Cruise Control to maintain the pad rotations under the typical pressures with this soft large pad. Under the Sun Gun...





And finally, a couple of reflection shots - not too shabby for grey in my humble opinion :






Not all OP has been removed, but there is certainly an improvement and further sets have shown in testing to get better results again

The machine polishing advancement of the year? I certainly think so, certainly so far at least :thumb:

[wifpd4]

Re: Meguiars DA Microfibre Correction System - My Testing Results

Thank you for all this work. Can't wait to fire up a laptop and view all the videos.

[greg0303]

Re: Meguiars DA Microfibre Correction System - My Testing Results

Super tests and very nice write-up.

Thanks for sharing your experience/ observations/ results.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Meguiars DA Microfibre Correction System - My Testing Results

Absolutely fantastic information, Dave! Thanks for taking the time to do the testing, shoot the videos, and compile it all here. There's a lot to take in here but we'd like to make a few observations of our own.

First, it is very important to remember the the main reason the DA Microfiber Correction System was developed; it was NOT designed to be a "high end" detailing system for very discriminating detailers but rather a safe, easy to learn, fast and efficient way for high volume reconditioning facilities to bring back the shine on used vehicles. These customers, primarily larger used car auction houses, rental agencies, etc (many reconditioning on the order of 400 or more vehicles per day!) can not afford to put all of their employees, many of whom are short term employees, through intensive rotary buffing training. So the goal of this system was to give these employers and employees an alternative that is easier to learn and without the potential downside of rotary buffing in the hands of a novice. It is not designed to compete directly with combinations like M105 on a rotary for initial cut (or Menzerna Power Gloss, etc) and a follow up of M205 or 85rd via finishing foam pad on a slow spinning rotary.

That said, your observations showed that this system can actually compete quite well with more traditional higher end processes. What we're seeing here in the States is that in situations were just a two step process is needed or asked for (ie, that's all the customer is willing to pay for) the DA Microfiber System can yield fantastic results compared to other two step processes. It has other advantages over other two step processes as well; faster correction times, ease of wipe off, lack of dust. But for those who are looking to take the finish to a higher level still, they're skipping the DA Finishing Wax altogether and instead using M205 on a finishing pad followed by a favorite wax/sealant. As always, of course, the way the paint reacts, the demands of the user, the expectations of the customer, etc will all determine final outcome and any adjustments needed in technique.

Through all of the testing you've so beautifully documented here, it's clear that when speed and efficiency are needed, the DA Microfiber Correction System can more than hold its own against even some of the best in the business. When demanding users such as you take on projects like this, raising the bar as it were, and this system comes out looking this good - we'll take it!!!

[Hemin8r]

Re: Meguiars DA Microfibre Correction System - My Testing Results

Great job compiling all the information you have provided, very informative, Thanks!