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Thread: DA Microfiber Correction System with forced rotation dual action polishers

          
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    Mr. greg0303's Avatar
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    Thumbs up DA Microfiber Correction System with forced rotation dual action polishers

    Upon introduction of DA Microfiber Correction System it was stated that The System works with all type of dual action polishers, including machines with forced rotation like Makita BO 6040 and Flex XC 3401 VRG. When The System became available many detailers compared its performance with regular D/A’s versus those with forced rotation. Many reported that forced rotation causes D300 Correction Compound and MF cutting discs behaving very grabby which is not the best feeling while working on car paint. Dual action polishers without forced rotation seemed to be preferred tools to go with.

    I decided to take a closer look at the combo of Flex XC 3401 VRG and D300/ MF cutting disc. I had a vehicle waiting for probably its first ever full detail: 2000 Ford Mustang Convertible Silver Metallic. I started with full wash and clay bar. Once the surface was prepared it was ready for DA Microfiber Correction System.

    Flex XC 3401 VRG has its RPM’s specified for each speed settings. OPM’s are a little bit tricky as manufacturer uses its own reference guidance. D300 was designed to perform best around 4,800 OPM so it would be setting 2.5 on Flex. I decided to go little higher and start with speed 3.0 . I used 6” MF cutting disc as this machine is quite powerful and that size is recommended for polishers with forced rotation.

    After priming the disc with Correction Compound I started working on the vehicle’s hood which had some swirl marks and several scratches. I visually divided the hood into 8 sections. Comparing to the feeling when working with G110v2 and 5” MF cutting disc it was a big difference. Flex produced such a removable force that I would say it’s a direct competition to rotary buffers. I could see improvement after every pass. I performed 4-6 passes per section before wiping off the remaining product and inspecting progress. The level of cut was really impressive. Swirls were absolutely no match for this combo and only few deeper scratches were still visible on the surface. I also used Brinkmann Swirl Finder light to see what type of unwanted stuff I leave behind. The only thing I noticed was a very light haze. Some areas of deeper scratches I passed through one more time with increased speed setting to 3.5 . I think that was right on the border line and I wouldn’t go any higher speed wise.

    Forced rotation D/A and D300/ MF cutting disc offer great cut but micro fingers are absolutely flattened after each section pass. It’s also necessary to use compressed air or pad conditioning brush to remove spent product as it clogs the disc pretty quickly (much more than with G110v2). I also strongly recommend to use just medium to medium high down pressure (not heavy nor moderate) as this combo seems to work better that way. After some section passes I spent about 45-60 seconds just conditioning the disc to make it ready to go again. I think while working with forced rotation machines one disc per car is absolutely not enough. I switched to a fresh and clean disc half way through the detail as it was necessary to maintain good cut level.

    I must also express that it’s very important to perform a test spot while deciding to use forced rotation D/A with DA Microfiber Correction System. For paints on delicate side this combo will be an overkill for sure leaving undesired side effects. It should perform well on medium and extremely well on hard paints.
    Differences between forced rotation D/A performance vs. regular D/A:


    1. Much faster cut and defect removal (I truly believe close to rotary buffers),
    2. Fewer passes may be needed to reach the desired final results,
    3. Excessive disc cleaning needed after every section pass due to increased force,
    4. Only medium to medium high down pressure needed,
    5. Speed should be kept on lower settings – 3.0-3.5 for Flex XC 3401 VRG and D300/ MF cutting disc as Step One and 2.0-2.5 D301/ MF finishing disc as Step Two,
    6. On softer paints some experimenting may be needed (like using MF finishing disc instead of MF cutting disc with D300 Correction Compound in Step One),
    7. 6”-diameter discs are needed making it more difficult to work in tight spaces,
    8. No holograms, no swirls, just like when using regular D/A polisher.


    I haven’t spent enough time behind forced rotation D/A and DA MF Correction System to reach an expert level for sure but I must say that my first experience was very positive and final results were better than expected. There are several different combinations available to experiment: D300/ MF finishing disc for delicate paints, D301/ MF cutting disc for one-step correction, etc.

    All these became available because of truly dedicated People at Meguiar’s who designed, tested and manufactured this System spending many years to perfect its performance.

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    Registered Member Marc08EX's Avatar
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    Re: DA Microfiber Correction System with forced rotation dual action polishers

    Thanks for sharing your experience and insight about the Meguiar's Microfiber System when used with the Flex 3401. This will really help everyone here in MOL on how to properly use the system with a forced rotation D/A polisher.

    I have a question regarding the Flex's backing plate. You know how Meguiar's stresses the importance of the microfingers that's why they suggest to use their backing plate. how long are the fingers of the 3401's BP compared to the S6BP or the W67DA? Was there any unwanted heat build-up on the microfiber pads?
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    Mr. greg0303's Avatar
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    Re: DA Microfiber Correction System with forced rotation dual action polishers

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc08EX View Post
    Thanks for sharing your experience and insight about the Meguiar's Microfiber System when used with the Flex 3401. This will really help everyone here in MOL on how to properly use the system with a forced rotation D/A polisher. I have a question regarding the Flex's backing plate. You know how Meguiar's stresses the importance of the microfingers that's why they suggest to use their backing plate. how long are the fingers of the 3401's BP compared to the S6BP or the W67DA? Was there any unwanted heat build-up on the microfiber pads?
    Thanks, Marc.
    Good point about staying outside S6BP recommended backing plate with 6" MF discs. With Flex 3401 unfortunately we have no choice and we have to use Flex BP. I believe there is more heat build up due to not recommended BP and also working under forced rotation. I can't really tell yet if it's gonna noticeably shorten MF discs' life or not. I have to play with that combo more and see what happens.

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    Global Product & Training Spec Michael Stoops's Avatar
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    Re: DA Microfiber Correction System with forced rotation dual action polishers

    Great write up, Greg, very informative for users of the Flex 3401 who are considering experiencing the DA Microfiber Correction System. We've always said that the forced rotation tools, while certainly useable with this system, may not return the best result since the system really was developed with a true DA in mind. That said, we knew there would be users of slightly larger format tools, or forced rotation tools, who would want to use it. A potential downside to using this system with a forced rotation tool is an expected increase in hazing or marring following the compounding step. That is somewhat minimized by nature of the larger 6" discs that are used with these tools, and of course the paint is going to play a big role in the outcome here as well.

    You make some excellent points regarding the potential different outcomes between forced rotation use and DA use. Anyone reading your post here would do well to reread it carefully and fully understand those distinctions.

    Again, a great write up on forced rotation use of the DA Microfiber Correction System.
    Michael Stoops
    Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.

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    Re: DA Microfiber Correction System with forced rotation dual action polishers

    Very impressive Greg!

    As you know, I am not a big fan of the Flex. Simply grabs way too much for my liking.

    You have a true talent for write-ups.
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    Mr. greg0303's Avatar
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    Re: DA Microfiber Correction System with forced rotation dual action polishers

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Stoops View Post
    Again, a great write up on forced rotation use of the DA Microfiber Correction System.
    Thank you very much, Mike, for your kind words.
    DA Microfiber Correction System offers many options to address paints' specific needs. It's truly the amazing tool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn T. View Post
    Very impressive Greg!
    As you know, I am not a big fan of the Flex. Simply grabs way too much for my liking.
    You have a true talent for write-ups.
    Thank you, Shawn.
    Good D/A polisher will get you covered pretty well.

    Always willing to share my experience with MOL members.

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    Re: DA Microfiber Correction System with forced rotation dual action polishers

    Man I am about to retire the rotary period!

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    Mr. greg0303's Avatar
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    Re: DA Microfiber Correction System with forced rotation dual action polishers

    Quote Originally Posted by daniel clark View Post
    Man I am about to retire the rotary period!
    Definitely DA Microfiber Correction System closes the gap between dual action and rotary buffers but it's not a full replacement of rotary buffers.

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    Re: DA Microfiber Correction System with forced rotation dual action polishers

    Excellent write up.

    I'm glad I noticed this thread. I was wondering about this after using my flex all day today. I think next time I make an order I will get some to try. I like them on the DA.
    Ron

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    Registered Member Alfisti's Avatar
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    Re: DA Microfiber Correction System with forced rotation dual action polishers

    Thanks for the experimentation. I have a Mak BO6040 and have contemplated this system. At the moment, I achieve the best correcting results on my Mak with PFW pads and UNO. I believe it's even better better with TufBuf Black Natural Lambswool Polishing Pad.
    Paul Marmarinos
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