After M105 and M205

[CarLikerer]

Hey everybody. I was planning on getting my cars all detailed up and doing a few friend's cars for a little extra money but whenever I try to find exactly what to do I find conflicting information. I hope you guys can help me finally get to the bottom of this mystery.

For starters, I have a PC 7424xp and a Makita 9227c so I'm not limited by my tools, I just have to buy backing plates and pads first. I just don't if I should use the Makita in this day an age, especially if I really can't afford to damage someone else's car.

Here are the steps I thought would work:
-wash
-clay
-M105
-M205
-Menzerna 85RD
-Wolfgang sealant v3

Would it be a good idea to use the rotary for any of those things? And I gathered that the pads I would be using and orange LC for M105 and white LC for M205, but what pads do I use for Menzerna 85RD and the sealant? And would I prime those pads like I would with M105 and M205? Also are those the steps and products that you would recommend me use? Provided I want a really high gloss, I will often work with black paint and I want a decent amount of protection.

Thank you everyone for your help!

[Markus Kleis]

Re: After M105 and M205

If you aren't comfortable with the rotary then I wouldn't touch a customer's car with it. If you have experience and are comfortable with what you are doing, then you need to evaluate the car on a case by case basis and determine what the least aggressive method is that can get the job done effectively.

Some people prefer to cut with a rotary, some prefer to finish with a rotary and some prefer doing it all (or none) via rotary. It really comes back to your skills and comfort level.

With the new microfiber system a DA is capable of some fairly serious correction - something to consider.

As for the rest of your steps, you can test as you go (every car will be unique in some way), but the 85RD may not be necessary in many cases after M205.

[CarLikerer]

Re: After M105 and M205

Well I have the option to get confident with the rotary because I've got 2 of my personal cars that I want to figure out the best method on. One is a softer black '05 Acura EL and the other is a green (or that blue-green that TL's come in) '07 Acura TL.
The Acura EL needs the works on the paint (I want to sand but I'll hold off for now, I hate knowing so much about painting because I notice every car has orange peel now lol.)
But the Acura TL actually looks alright, it doesn't reflect like a mirror at all but it really doesn't have any swirls or anything. Do you think I should skip M105 and go to M205, or maybe just use M105 a little bit or is that even worth my time?
Something else that I think about is the holograms. If I jewel with a rotary and follow up with the sealant on a PC, will that make it so there's no chance of holograms? And (sorry I'm clueless) I read that the new M105 shouldn't be used with a rotary, only a DA, unlike the original version of M105. Is that true? I see the people from the Meguiar's youtube videos use a rotary but those might be videos done with the original, I'm not sure.

Your help means a tun to me, I really can't begin to express my gratitude!

[Markus Kleis]

Re: After M105 and M205

From the sound of things, it seems like you may want to hold off on the rotary for a bit. You should get some practice under your belt with a DA and just generally getting a feel for the process and how paint reacts to different methods before getting a rotary involved.

As for what process to use, as always Meguiar's recommend starting with less aggressive products on a small test spot - check your results - and then decide what is needed from there.

As for M105 - the only application changes between the first version and the current version is the ADDITION of compatibility with DA buffers. M105 still works via rotary.

[BlackScreaminMachine]

Re: After M105 and M205

From the sound of things, it seems like you may want to hold off on the rotary for a bit. You should get some practice under your belt with a DA and just generally getting a feel for the process and how paint reacts to different methods before getting a rotary involved.

I very much Agree. Time to head to the junk yard and get some panels to practice on.

[CarLikerer]

Re: After M105 and M205

Well I just got the makita 9227c for $100 so even if I don't use it for polishing, it might still be useful for sanding a cars paint off.
Is the reason why people use rotary over DA because it cuts faster? Or does it really shine better? If so, a noticeable amount?

[BillE]

Re: After M105 and M205

Well I just got the makita 9227c for $100 so even if I don't use it for polishing, it might still be useful for sanding a cars paint off.
Is the reason why people use rotary over DA because it cuts faster? Or does it really shine better? If so, a noticeable amount?

To keep with the 'sanding' theme...using a rotary is much like using a belt sander compared to using a palm sander. The belt sander will remove a LOT of wood in a heart beat...yes it can be gentle after MUCH practice. Whereas, the palm sander will also remove wood, but is much more forgiving to mistakes.

Make sense?

Bill

[CarLikerer]

Re: After M105 and M205

Well I was using this one sander that sort of just rumbled and it cut fast and still looked pretty good so if the rotary doesn't look good after the second primer coat than I'll just bust that thing out. I always use hand sanders on paint though, hell I even tape all edges, highs and lows to make sure I don't take off too much paint.
Although I've seen people use air tools to sand down clear coat, would a PC work for this just as well as the air tool?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: After M105 and M205

That Makita 9227 is the absolute last tool you want to even consider for sanding. It is a direct drive, rotary only tool that would burn through your paint in a heartbeat with a sanding disc attached to it.

The air powered sanders you've seen are orbital or DA type sanders. All of the popular DA buffers are basically derived from the concept of the Porter Cable 7424 which was designed by Porter Cable to be a sanding tool.

Well I have the option to get confident with the rotary because I've got 2 of my personal cars that I want to figure out the best method on. One is a softer black '05 Acura EL and the other is a green (or that blue-green that TL's come in) '07 Acura TL.
The Acura EL needs the works on the paint (I want to sand but I'll hold off for now, I hate knowing so much about painting because I notice every car has orange peel now lol.)

We doubt you'd want to teach yourself on these vehicles, especially the '05 EL if the black paint is soft. You'll be cursing the rotary for loading the paint with holograms. We had someone bring a very similar car (year might have been different) to a Saturday Class last year and it was loaded with holograms. He said he spent 15 hours with a rotary to get the car looking like that. We put a DA in the hands of someone who had never even seen the tool and he managed to remove all traces of hologram from a test spot on the hood in about 3 minutes.

Further, orange peel on factory paint is best left alone as there really isn't enough factory applied clear to allow for safe removal. And unless you've got a good paint thickness gauge, don't even think about it.

But the Acura TL actually looks alright, it doesn't reflect like a mirror at all but it really doesn't have any swirls or anything. Do you think I should skip M105 and go to M205, or maybe just use M105 a little bit or is that even worth my time?
Something else that I think about is the holograms.

If the TL doesn't even have swirls in it, why even consider M105? It's our single most aggressive compound and it will take out 1000 grit sanding marks when rotary applied. The TL doesn't even have swirls, so ...... Now, M205 may be perfect on it as it can remove very faint marring and do wonders for the clarity of the paint.

If I jewel with a rotary and follow up with the sealant on a PC, will that make it so there's no chance of holograms?

If you can handle the jeweling step properly with a rotary you should be hologram free right there. But the skill needed to do this doesn't come overnight, and when you are skilled it's still highly dependent on the pads, finishing polish, and especially the paint itself.

And (sorry I'm clueless) I read that the new M105 shouldn't be used with a rotary, only a DA, unlike the original version of M105. Is that true? I see the people from the Meguiar's youtube videos use a rotary but those might be videos done with the original, I'm not sure.

M105, even in its revised formula, is still a more rotary friendly product than a DA one. Not sure where you heard that M105 is not a rotary use product, unless you've confused that with Ultimate Compound. UC is our consumer line compound derived from M105; it doesn't cut quite as much, and it's much more friendly on a DA than M105 is, but it is not rated for use on a rotary (though many have tried it and gotten excellent results).